New approach to starters

I made a German Pils with some ideas from this study. The yeast had to be built up to get the right pitch. So as mentioned in the previous post, I made a 2 liter 1.018 starter with 8-10 grams of Fermaid O. I used a defusion stone and aerated with pure oxygen for 90-120 seconds. I let it spin for 12-14 hours and then stop the stir plate and let the yeast stay at room temperature for another 10-12 hours. After 24 hours total, it was crashed cooled for another 24 hours.

I then decanted the yeast from the first starter and pitched it into another 4 liter starter. I used the same method as above, the only difference was this next step was at 1.036. I then crashed cooled it and waited 2 days for brew day.

The yeast I built up was @ 2 months old, so I wasn't sure what to expect. I pitched it at 48F (8.9C) and let it free rise to 52F (11.1C). The lag time was one of the shortest I have ever had at that temperature, @15 hours. Typically from that yeast (Wyeast 2124) I would expect 18 -22 hours. The fermentation started before the beer could come up to 52F. The other thing I noticed was that there was little or no sulfur during the entire fermentation, typically I would get this foul odor @ 2-3 days into the fermentation.

The beer hit terminal gravity about 1-2 days earlier than previous batches and the AA was just above 80%. I would normally see 78-79%, so not a big difference, but still an improvement. The beer itself is very good, very clean and well attenuated, delicious actually. I hope to get it into a competition in late January to see how well it does. So far I can see where this is an improvement over my past beers.

I brewed another beer using this same starter technique this weekend. I used fresh 2124 this time and brewed a Helles. The lag time was incredibly short, 10 hours at 47-48F (8.5C). This one is presently churning away at 51F (10.5C), and is producing some sulfur, but still less than what I normally see.

I think the addition of FAN in the form of Fermaid-O is producing healthy yeast in higher yeast counts that have excellent vitality. I don't believe that it is practical or necessary to get the yeast into a aerobic state to produce very healthy yeast. To me the main take away is to get the yeast the proper nutrients for growth (FAN) and build up their sterol/lipids reserves (oxygen) to able to thrive in a less than ideal environment of fermenting beer. Now I want to know if I can reduce the amount of yeast extract and still see the same results.

Thanks again Mark for bringing this to the forum, it's been a great lesson in yeast health and biology.
Two questions HVM.

Did you areate you batch before yeast pitch with pure o2?

Also did you add any yeast nutrient to you wort main batch?

Pretty cool results.

I'll be using plenty of nutrient now I don't have all the goodies barley provides.
Gluten free grains also have less nitrogen FAN % than barley.
 
Two questions HVM.

Did you areate you batch before yeast pitch with pure o2?

Also did you add any yeast nutrient to you wort main batch?

Pretty cool results.

I'll be using plenty of nutrient now I don't have all the goodies barley provides.
Gluten free grains also have less nitrogen FAN % than barley.
I pitched the yeast and then aerated the beer with pure oxygen for 120 seconds. I always add a 1/2 teaspoon of Wyeast yeast nutrient mainly for the zinc. So everything was the same except for the starter routine.
 
I pitched the yeast and then aerated the beer with pure oxygen for 120 seconds. I always add a 1/2 teaspoon of Wyeast yeast nutrient mainly for the zinc. So everything was the same except for the starter routine.
Cool yeah just checking to see how you treated your wort with this starter method.

The batches I brewed I added the nutrient to the starter only not to the wort.
 
I did a triangle test with a few friends on NYE on my two Saisons. I wasn't expecting to taste a difference but three of the four of us were able to tell the difference 3 out of 4 attempts. Again I think this is a process that really needs a stir plate at least and probably may be better if there's air pumped in via a filter.
 
I think this is a process that really needs a stir plate at least and probably may be better if there's air pumped in via a filter.
That Carlsberg propagation vessel looks do-able...just blow out the CO2 every couple of hours for an all oxygen environment.
 
Bump gunna resurrect this thread in anticipation to doing a low Carbon to Nitrogen starter.

My source of Carbon Plain old cane sugar.
1 teaspoon Fermaid O 1/2 teaspoon Fermaid K and 2/3 g unmeasured Gypsum for good measure Calcium that is...
20231115_192126.jpg

1lt starter were going
This is to resurrect a dried yeast Lallamand Munich Classic expired dry yeast pack as of Jan 2022 nearly a year old....

30g is needed of cane sugar to get 1lt of water to 1.012 SG
Screenshot_20231115_193450_Chrome.jpg


3.6 brix 1.014 ish
20231115_194612.jpg

Boiling 10 mins then cool and pitch expired Munich Classic yeast.
20231115_194910.jpg

OK boiled cooled and on the stir plate
20231115_210452.jpg

Catcha tomorrow yeasties.
 
Let’s us know how it performs. I found it has a really short lag time.
 
Let’s us know how it performs. I found it has a really short lag time.
Have left this spinning today so by the time I get home it'll be 24hours on the stirplate then I'll pop it in the keezer and on brew day I'll add 1.5lt RWS to get it going for fermentation.

In theory this is a two step starter one to hopefully rebuild yeast cells and the next step to check for Viability I'll pitch it Active I'm expecting time will tell...
 
This is what we got after cold crashing plenty of nice creamy yeast in there boys and girls Nice! Id estimate easilly 150-200mls of yeast
20231117_060603.jpg

I'll be doing the same steps for my Diamond Lager yeast I'll buy some Rice Malt Extract and make a larger 1st step for that one.
 
Low lag times are one of the most notable difference I found with this method. Nice work, Ben!
So I pitched this wort onto a whole yeast cake of BRY-97 and the Munich Classic beer is fermenting more vigorous and had the same lag time!

Here's BRY-97

And Munich Classic

The bubbles smell Fing Great from that small WP of Taiheke!
 
Last edited:

Back
Top