Mega head, and "gushers"

[Carpy]

I have been homebrewing for many years. However, I have slowed to only 2 or 3 batches (extract) per year. In the past 2 years or so I have noticed that my beers almost all have what I say is excessive head - not all gushers per se, but I need to pour slowly and decant several times after waiting for the head to settle enough to empty the 12-oz bottle in my pint glass. The "good news" is that the head does stick around even after diminishing to a "sane" level, which my wife and I think is good (we're Schaum fanatics!). However, my latest beer, the first bottle - after 2 wks carbonation on shelf - was OK but the next three (3) have been "gushers". I am now ready to very quickly decant as soon as I pop the cap off, and even then I tend to spill a half-ounce or so.... I use the same electronic scale to measure the priming corn sugar that I've used the past 6 years and I follow the same carbonation calculator (at Brewers Friend, of course). Unless my scale suddenly went wacky out of calibration, I don't think that's the problem, though I should confirm operation with a calibration weight. One other change in my process over the past 2 to 3 years: I went from stove-top boiling of 2.5 gallons wort to using DigiBoil electric kettle with full 5-gallon boils. I cannot think of another difference in my process. Could the ingredients (LME, steeping grains, etc.) make this much difference? If so, I have gotten the ingredients from different shops and brew different beer styles, so...

Your suggestions to help me would be highly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

 

[Bigbre04]

how you prime is very important. your sugar may not be evenly distributed in your priming solution. basically some of the bottles got more sugar then the others.

you may have ended up with a higher final gravity then you were expecting(or mis measured it).

certain yeasts are able to go far lower then others. especially if it was left warm.

if you post the recipe it would be helpful.

 

[Megary]

Gushers scream infection to me.

Are you sure all of your equipment is properly cleaned and sanitized?

 

[Donoroto]

Schaum is a function of protein. You got that.

Fast release of carbonation has a few causes, two biggies are excessive carbonation and warm beer.

If it was fine after the bottle was opened, but foamed when you poured it in the glass, it would be either a warm or dirty glass. I don’t think you have either. You implied it foams out if the bottle.

So, the head stays even after a while, but is the beer carbonated? That is, is it as fizzy as you expect? You can compare it to some commercial beer. If it is, even after releasing all that, it could be over carbonation.

If the beer is too warm, that’s easy to test: make it colder.

 

[Carpy]

how you prime is very important. your sugar may not be evenly distributed in your priming solution. basically some of the bottles got more sugar then the others.

you may have ended up with a higher final gravity then you were expecting(or mis measured it).

certain yeasts are able to go far lower then others. especially if it was left warm.

if you post the recipe it would be helpful.

Thanks @Bigbre04 for your reply!

Priming and the racking to bottling bucket have concerned me as well. I am using the same process as I have for many years:

1. pour the cooled sugar solution into the bucket.
2. rack from carboy (or bucket) into the bottom of the bucket (minimizing splashing) and I try to keep the flow going one direction close to the perimeter of the bottling bucket, so as to mix as thoroughly as possible.
3. this third step is relatively new (for me): whereas #2 alone seemed to suffice for previous years of brewing, since I've been having this more recent issue, when the bucket is full, I gently stir the beer using a sanitized brewing spoon. Again, it's not exactly a thorough "mix" but I want to guard against oxidation. Yet this is certainly more mixing than I used to do at this step in the process.

I wasn't sure if you'd be able to see my recipe in this tool, so I exported it as PDF and attached it. This is my most recent recipe, which has by far the most "gushing". But as I stated, the Schaum-on-steroids has been happening for the past 5 batches (at least).

Thanks again!

 

[Carpy]

Gushers scream infection to me.

Are you sure all of your equipment is properly cleaned and sanitized?

Hi @Megary. Thanks for the reply..

Yes, I have also thought about infection. Similar to my previous response (above), my process hasn't changed for years. I used a Beer Jet faucet adapter bottle washer and thoroughly blast the inside of each bottle with hot tap water for 5-10 seconds. After all 48+ bottles are blasted, I dunk a handful of bottles at a time in a bucket of StarSan, ensuring that each bottle fills with StarSan. Let the bottles lie submerged for at least 60 seconds, then empty and set on my cleaned/sanitized bottle tree until it's time to fill them. I sanitize the bucket, spigot, and bottling wand with StarSan, of course.

I am certainly open to the possibility of a random infection, perhaps just this last batch, for instance. But since I have had the "Mega Schaum" over the course of the past 5 or more batches, I tend to believe there is correlation between each of these incidents, and perhaps this is not therefore a random infection. But maybe there is something I'm overlooking?

Thanks again!

 

[Craigerrr]

Has anything changed on the fermenting side?
If you are fermenting cooler there will be more Co2 left in solution in the beer. I'm not sure but I think fermenting temp is part of the priming sugar calculator.

 

[Carpy]

Schaum is a function of protein. You got that.

Fast release of carbonation has a few causes, two biggies are excessive carbonation and warm beer.

If it was fine after the bottle was opened, but foamed when you poured it in the glass, it would be either a warm or dirty glass. I don’t think you have either. You implied it foams out if the bottle.

So, the head stays even after a while, but is the beer carbonated? That is, is it as fizzy as you expect? You can compare it to some commercial beer. If it is, even after releasing all that, it could be over carbonation.

If the beer is too warm, that’s easy to test: make it colder.

Hi @Donoroto. Thanks for the reply..

As for the reference to proteins, I have read about this. And that may well be related, if not the root cause, of my issue. And given that my most recent batch is a pumpkin (I used canned puree) ale, the pumpkin might well have amped up the proteins, exacerbating the issue?

Yes, the beer foams immediately upon opening the bottle, this latest batch to the point where I consider it a "gusher". The previous batches have been annoyances in that it takes 5 minutes to pour the bottle into the pint, allowing time for foam to settle which of course requires several decanting iterations.

Yes, the beer looks, smells, and tastes fine. In fact, this latest pumpkin ale is delicious (hence I dubbed it, Pumpkin Delish!). Carbonation level seems right to me, though I'm certainly not a BJCP judge so my palate is that of the Average Joe.

One note is that after the usual 2+ weeks of bottle conditioning, I store the beer on shelves in my basement (partially finished in my area, being Upper Midwest), but the temperature tends not to get below low 60's (Fahr) and mid-70's. My wife and I like our ales almost room temperature, sometimes even taking them right from the shelf and pouring them. But usually I set them in my chest freezer that is temp controlled to 50 deg. for 30 to 60 minutes. So the beer is not the cold when it's opened. Perhaps I should try putting them in our regular fridge (< 40 deg) and seeing if the colder temp makes a significant difference? I'll give it a try.

And as to the over-carbonation, I think I should ensure I am using proper amount of priming sugar. Again, the scale may have become "off" calibration.

To @Bigbre04's point, I believe the batches have generally reached expected Final Gravity, but this last batch might have stopped short. I use a Tilt hydrometer and by my calculation the attenuation on this last batch was just short of 70%. I believe the "expected" attenuation of S-04 is around 75%. Would 5% account for gushers? I'm not sure as I believe I have had oddball batches slightly underperform in the distant pass where this issue did not occur. But it's worth consideration for sure...

 

[Dave Y]

Despite our beef , I’m right there with @Bigbre04, this sounds a lot like an inconsistent and resulting over carbonation in at least some bottles. I had this happen to a Christmas beer I did years back that was big, black and spicy...

Get your minds out of the gutter folks.

I bottled it the same way I did every other beer I’d bottled to date, same ratio and like you got a geyser of foam on opening. It was a good beer, albeit a little on the heavy side but seriously tasty. That said it finished about 1.020 (down from something huge like 1.080) and like you describe, I stored the bottles at basically room temp so the bottle “conditioning” was basically fermentation and probably way more than needed.

 

[Carpy]

Despite our beef , I’m right there with @Bigbre04, this sounds a lot like an inconsistent and resulting over carbonation in at least some bottles. I had this happen to a Christmas beer I did years back that was big, black and spicy...

Get your minds out of the gutter folks.

I bottled it the same way I did every other beer I’d bottled to date, same ratio and like you got a geyser of foam on opening. It was a good beer, albeit a little on the heavy side but seriously tasty. That said it finished about 1.020 (down from something huge like 1.080) and like you describe, I stored the bottles at basically room temp so the bottle “conditioning” was basically fermentation and probably way more than needed.

Thanks, @Dave Y, for the reply. That brew you made sounds great! I like a spiced beer when it's done well - usually "Less is more".

Would you suggest that after the 2-weeks of conditioning I move bottles to the fridge? I suppose that could be something to try with the next batch. I don't have enough space to house more than 2 or 3 cases and I'm sure my wife won't let me get a 3rd chest freezer (the 2nd is my ferm chamber). As per my other reply today I will put the next couple of bottles in the colder fridge and see if that reduces or eliminates the gushing effect. I can live with the mega-schaum, but cannot deal with losing even a few drops of my better brews to the kitchen sink!

I've gotten a lot of good suggestions in this Forum, with extremely fast turn-around. I am grateful for everyone's brainstorming ideas!

 

[Dave Y]

I have not bottled in some time now, and I’m not sure I’d go as long as 2 weeks at room temp or even high 50’s/low 60’s depending on what yeast is in play. Maybe 5-ish days? for some bigger beers, longer for my peasant brews.

Kegs both simplify and complicate brewing life at the same time, but do give me more flexibility for my use case.

 

[Bigbre04]

as was said above it is a combo of over-carb and warm temps. the overcarb being inconsistent is likely priming sugar related. the temp is personal preference related. if you brought those bottles down to damn near freezing you may be able to get the beer out of the bottle more easily especially into a "beer clean" chilled glass(think the same temp as the beer to minimize the off gassing from the temp change).

I know its not optimal, but that would be a solution to save beer.

I dont have advice on the priming sugar end beyond switching to kegs and force carbing or priming in there.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I would check the kitchen scale. I had a couple of issues when I bottled. After that, I did the double check. 5oz corn sugar is also 3/4 cup. I used my kitchen measuring cups and verified it with the scale.
The other thing I did was check one bottle after 11-14 days. If it was carbed correctly, the other got immediately cold crashed so they would not ferment any more.
I never stirred the bottling bucket.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

1. pour the cooled sugar solution into the bucket.
2. rack from carboy (or bucket) into the bottom of the bucket (minimizing splashing) and I try to keep the flow going one direction close to the perimeter of the bottling bucket, so as to mix as thoroughly as possible.
3. this third step is relatively new (for me): whereas #2 alone seemed to suffice for previous years of brewing, since I've been having this more recent issue, when the bucket is full, I gently stir the beer using a sanitized brewing spoon. Again, it's not exactly a thorough "mix" but I want to guard against oxidation. Yet this is certainly more mixing than I used to do at this step in the process.

This is the same procedure I used, without issue, for years before I switched to kegging. My bottle cleaning was similar to yours as well with the exception that I soaked the bottles in Oxyclean and used a bottle brush. So, while carbonation levels did vary per bottle, none were gushers. The only time I did have gushers was when I definitely had an infection. But the beer tasted sour as well and you say yours tastes fine. Still, pursuing the infection angle, what kind of vessel do you ferment in? If it is plastic, it could have a scratch which could be hard to see and harbor bacteria that would be very hard to properly clean and sanitize. That would explain why the problem started suddenly without changing any of your procedures. So after trying the actions already suggested (scale calibration, chilling bottles in fridge, etc.) you might want to consider replacing your fermenter.

 

[Donoroto]

As for the reference to proteins, I have read about this.

Proteins are not a bad thing! And they are naturally in beer, but may vary according to recipe. They are what forms the foam, and I know that some of us work at not having too little. Do not consider it a problem.

A chilled bottle will foam less. Get it as cold as you can without freezing it, pour it, then let it warm up to your desired temperature.

I do suspect moderate over-carbonation is the real issue.

 

[Zambi]

I haven't bottled for a while
But if all bottles gush, then it is not the sugar distribution. If some gush and some not (or some more than others) then it may be
I struggled with sugar distribution and moved to adding sugar per bottle.
I think @Herm brews did something similar but with a syringe.

I would try get at least 1 pet bottle (sprite/7 up) and carbonate those as you do your other bottles. By squeezing those you can follow the carbonation.
When it feels like it's done, drink one of the pet bottles to check and if OK, then move them to a cold place
If not yet done, then repeat with the other pet bottle