Mashout

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by west1m, Jul 9, 2020.

  1. west1m

    west1m Active Member

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    I lost the post but it seems no one worries about the ten minute 170° mashout at the end of mashing?
    Does that seem to be everyones plan?
     
  2. Megary

    Megary Well-Known Member

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    I can’t speak for anyone but myself.

    I have never been convinced from what I’ve read on the subject that any step mash (or Mash out) regimen is worth the time and effort for my 2.5 gal BIAB process. I’m also willing to accept the fact that I might be completely wrong.

    Someday I plan to try a (modified) Hochkurz mash just to say I did it, but I don’t expect the results to be any great shakes.
     
  3. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I don't worry about that. It makes sense if you're a pro and need to lock in a mash profile. For us, not so much.
     
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  4. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    I’m with @Megary . In theory, the mash out step is to stop enzymatic activity and reduce viscosity for an easier sparge. However, starch conversion is pretty much complete at the end of the mash. And the viscosity doesn’t change much between 150 and 168 degrees.

    I think a better reason for the mash out is to raise the wort temperature to get to boiling quicker. This would make some sense for commercial brewing.

    I don’t think it makes much difference to the final character of the beer. There’s a Brulosophy test on the subject. They found no difference. http://brulosophy.com/2019/08/12/the-mashout-effect-exbeeriment-results/
     
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  5. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Neither here i used to religiously but now finish mashing at 71c.
    It's to kill conversion as Nosey Mentioned above my thoughts are heck if them enzymes want to keep going on conversion while I'm heating to boil go for Gold my boys Go For Gold!
    I take my preboil sample not long before boil Any how.

    I'm guessing one instance I'd do it now is for some reason I was doing an extended mash let's say you split the brew day in two like mash in afternoon once home from work heat to mash out temp kill enzymes cover go to bed draw out mash bag in morning and carry on with the brew heat to boil ect ECT.
     
  6. BarbarianBrewer

    BarbarianBrewer Well-Known Member

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    I used to mash out because I thought I needed to. Then I read the same posts as the rest of you and discovered I didn't need to. Like Ben says, if the enzymes want to convert a little more I'm not going to stop them. A professional brewer needs to hit specific numbers; a home brewer doesn't. I still heat my sparge water pretty hot, I just don't target a mash-out temp.
     
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  7. west1m

    west1m Active Member

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    Great , that is what i thought I was reading. I had been doing the 170° step but don't see doing it in the future.
     
  8. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    I do a mash out on every brew these days, but that's only because I brew exclusively with a Grainfather now and it is a brew step that is easily plugged into the programming steps and it starts heating my mash while I sparge so it doesn't take as long to boil. Before going to the Grainfather, I rarely if ever did a real mash out step.
     
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  9. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    A mashout will improve extraction rates. The gravity usually rises during a mashout. Enzymes are active all the way to 168f, at the temperature they will denature in a few minutes.

    Locking in the mash profile is really not necessary, since it will be heated up in the boil. The benefit is better extraction and a more complex sugar/dextrin profile. The remaining starches are converted by alpha amylase enzymes at these higher temperatures into more complex sugars and even dextrins. The idea is that can create better body in the beer. Either way, I do it because it easy on my system and it increases efficiency.
     
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  10. Frankenbrewer

    Frankenbrewer Well-Known Member

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    I just recently tried it for the first time. I'm not sure if it made a difference. I missed my number by (.002) by doing it. The batch before that I missed my number by the same (.002). Not sure if that means anything but it prolonged by brew day if nothing else.
     
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  11. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I've not noticed any increased or decreased efficiency batch - batch by not mashing out.
    Honestly when you think about it if conversions not complete in the hour or so you've been mashing that'd be amazing.
    Plus once you've finished the sparge and heating wort to boil the enzymes and the starches are both still free in the wort that youve extracted so any dextrin conversion is going to happen either way if you've still got your grains submerged in or out out of the pot.
    Correct me if I'm wrong though;).
     
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  12. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    I do it for the same reason and when I fly sparge I like to start at 170F, it seems to really make a difference
     
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  13. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    The conversion isn’t always done in an hour. Beta enzymes work slower at lower temps and a 90 minute mash doesn’t always lead to higher extraction, but it’s typically more fermentable wort than a 60 minute mash at that same temperature. The starches were converted, but the enzyme needed more time to completely convert them to simple sugars.

    I often wondered if conversion continues when bringing the wort to a boil, but I’ve never seen the gravity increase. I think once the wort is removed from the grain, there’s is a lot less starches available to convert. The other thing to think about is if all the starches were converted in one hour, there would be no variances in extraction efficiency.
     
  14. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you mostlt If I'm aiming at a more higher fermentable wort I'll mash low 61-2c and for a good 40mins step to the alpha range 66c 20 then up to 70-71c for 10 I'm sure using this mash schedule near all conversion I'm able to get will be sorted.
    For instance I've done a low step high step mash on a lager grist left it covered and went and run some errands for 4 hours I came back and the mash was just sitting in the enzymatic range of 60c and i still got my usual preboil gravity.
    Honestly yes extending certain mashes beyond to 60min range is needed but I'm betting you may just be spending that 30mins for a mear 2 points of gravity.

    I'm mashing a high adjunct mash this weekend Diastic power is at 50 in this instance I'm going to let that mash run longer just to ensure the enzymes haven had enough time to convert.
     
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  15. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Now this is something that's interesting and I know there is the "cold sparge " camp out there but this is where I heat my sparge water still to around 75c.

    Has anyone cold sparged is there any difference? A great reason I sparge hot is to reduce the time to boil.
     
  16. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    I've brewed the same beer as before just cold sparging and lost at least 5 points in final gravity
     
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  17. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Awesome I love some solid evedince to do or not to do something in the brewhouse.
    Cheers I'll keep heating my sparge water I've just not had the gumption to do this myself.

    Another thing that would also expand this outcome would be sparge volume my average total brew liquor volume is around 30lt I mash pretty thin and sparge with just 5lt 1/6th the total liquor size.

    I'm sure your sparge amount is around half total liquor volume?
     
  18. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    lately my mash water is about 8 or 9 gallons due to getting great efficiency and my sparge is about 12 gallons, I use roughly 20 gallons per batch
     
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  19. ^Tony^

    ^Tony^ Active Member

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    I do BIAB. I accidentally "tested" a cream ale recipe (read: forgot to do the rest during one brew session). I never noticed any real difference other than the amount of froth/foam on the top of the wort after missing the 10 minute/170 rest version....but that could just be my imagination. The only reason I even remember is because I thought the froth was unusual. Since then I've forgotten the 10 minute mash out during a few other sessions and all the beers taste the way they should, I hit my gravity's, and the fermentation does not seem to be effected. Now I just skip the 10 minute rest it to save time.
     
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  20. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    If you're fly sparging, there may be a valid reason for a mashout. Otherwise, I'd about guarantee any improvements in extraction are due to the extra time rather than the temperature increase. I found this to be true when I did BIAB.
     
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