mash

windy

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Hi Lads ,
just another question, I read on internet , that I can mash for 45 mins and boil for 30 mins.
im a little to worried to do that yet, as Idont want to lose my batch as I only brew 20 ltrs at a time every 3 weeks or so .
I m just looking for more info and experience that you chaps has had doing this .
Its not a case of doing my brew day faster, because im retired so I have loads of time .
Best Regards
Windy
 
@Trialben does this all the time.
I don't. I seem to have a better result by mashing longer (couple hours).
It's all up to you.
Maybe you can split a batch and try?
 
Yes I do @windy @Zambezi Special is on the money I've been doing this for atleast the last 6 months or more now.

It was weird when my little girl was 0-1 I actually had more bru time now she's older well daddy's gotta DO when she's awake on weekends that = reduced brew days.

This is how ive come to adapt to these new life circumstances.
I must change so therefore my bree method Marshal from Brulosophy and Martin Keen and even what's his name David Heath have all successfully proven a 30 min boil is fine and martin and Brulosophy have both reduced the mash schedule to 30 in exchange for PPG in the mash. Even the Clawhammer guys I'm sure are doing this Shortened brew sesh?
This equates to what maybe another 2$ worth of malt for the lower extraction and brewhouse efficiency.

Mate I've mashed long mashed overnigh boiled 90 mins 60 45 30 (not done no boil yet) and I'm either not that good at this Homebrewing thing or my tasters are stuffed but I've had good at times great beer from all methods.

Bottom line you brew for YOU and how YOU want to brew :D!

Take my 2 salts worth ;).

Now my current method of your curious is mash 40-45mins boil 30 then NO chill wort either right in the boil kettle covered with Aluminium Foil or racked at flame out into my stainless steel kegmenter.
I'll grab some wort 10 mins into boil on brew day and spin this up with the yeast I'll use for fermentation while the batch is chilling overnight up to 24hrs post brew.

OK that's enough from me I'm a few HB in and I'm likely to waffle on if I don't be careful.

Enjoy your brewing ask us hombrewing folk as many questions as you wish :).
 
Bottom line you brew for YOU and how YOU want to brew :D!

Here here!

@windy do a Google on "short and shoddy beer" and you'll get right to the front door of this idea. My only other advice is to think about the other trade offs beside the time factor that you may get back. Think Newton's Law....
 
I saw Denny and some others mention that they do 20-30 minute boils and 30-40 min mashes. No problem for NEIPA but i suppose you can makup the ibu with a bit of extra hops @30 if you want to cut back on time; adjust your boil off #s. Same was said about the mash. I always do 60 minutes for both but if its converted in 40 i guess its done.
 
Check out episode 36 brew files

Brew Files - Episode 36 - Speedy Brewing. Sorry but I'm having issues with link copying or I'd have posted it here.... The whole episode is about time saving steps.
 
I saw Denny and some others mention that they do 20-30 minute boils and 30-40 min mashes. No problem for NEIPA but i suppose you can makup the ibu with a bit of extra hops @30 if you want to cut back on time; adjust your boil off #s. Same was said about the mash. I always do 60 minutes for both but if its converted in 40 i guess its done.
Not a lot of extra hops.
Screenshot_20221112-093457.png
Screenshot_20221112-093414.png
 
Pretty simple reply here. Yes you can mash for 45 or less....it call comes to what you want your OG to be. You can mash for hours and still not get your OG...then what? Easy, add sugar or LME or DME to bring it up to what you want.

Boil....its used for 2 things....sanitization and bitterness. If I'm doing a Juicy Neipa which has no bittering hops, what's the point of boiling for an hour? Unless you need the water loss, then it's pointless if you think about it. I just brewed one last week, 10 min boil...that's it. If you want to boil for 30 mins, key is just find out the IBUs you need...calculate that for your 30 min edition instead of a 60 min. If you add 1 oz cascade hops at 60 mins....you would add probably 1.5-2 oz at the 30 min mark of a 30 min boil...all just depends on the IBU you are shooting for. Mess around with your recipes on this site, pretty easy actually figuring out 30 min or less boils...I'm doing them more often now.
 
The starch conversion in the mash is pretty complete by 45 minutes. A 30 minute boil is sufficient to precipitate proteins and other miscellaneous components. Depending on your hop schedule, you made need to slightly adjust the quantity of bittering hops to meet the IBU target.

I’ve used the 45 minute mash and 30 minute boil for a few years now with no I’ll effects.
 
Well, that question is answered. There's been a lotta times I've sat in front of a kettle waiting for the boil to finish, wondering, "Why am I doing this for those few more points on the IBU? Why not put in a few more pellets?" Boiling isn't just sanitation and bittering, it may also be to get rid of undesirable flavors. For example, Warrior, while excellent for bittering at 16AA, it tastes like lawn clippings if you don't boil it long enough to get rid of the flavoring oils. I can't say I'd EVER intentionally use Warrior in flavoring or aroma additions, certainly not in dry-hopping. Now I have to wonder how long before the 'grassy' flavor goes away. How long that takes might be part of the boil time. I guess the option there is use more of a more preferred flavor hop, and just adjust it for the IBU. Not the most efficient use of expensive hops, though.

As for mash, I already knew mash time was mostly about utilization, but there are some other things to consider too. I think. Lower temperature mashing can produce drier beers because of simpler sugars making more fermentable wort, but higher temperature mashes will deliver the wort faster, and produce maltier/sweeter beer. More sparging will deliver more sugars and dilute the wort. No sparge is the least efficient use of the malt, but the simplest mash method. More sugar to bump the gravity will wind up with more watery tasting higher alcohol beer with less flavor, I would think. Never thought too much about the sugar addition shortcut, but it makes perfect sense considering the last batch I did used a pound of corn sugar for that very purpose. Same goes for Rapier Wit, lots of Candi sugar in that. Higher gravity, very little effect on flavor or color. I guess I really don't have a question now, just a decision.

As far as "when" is concerned, in with the wort after mash if you're gonna add sugar. Hot wort will help dissolve the sugar, and the boil will certainly sanitize anything you add within a few minutes. Problem solved. Sometimes, though, the malt can make a difference, right? Like the difference in 6-Row versus 2-Row? 6-Row in the same recipe definitely made a drier beer than the 2-Row, but both really popped with the corn flavoring from the flaked corn. I like both, but one is noticeably drier than the other, if memory serves and I'm smart enough to know what's dry and what ain't.

If you're doing low temperature mashing, won't the same amount of starch take longer to convert to simpler sugars while you're trying to hold back Beta amylase enzymes?

I'm assuming honey does the same thing as sugar for the OG, but how much honey flavor is left over after boiling/fermenting? I can see that giving an interesting flavor to a stout or heavy beer, not unlike a mead. For that matter, I can think of thousands of flavors I'd like to try using baking/cooking extracts to take out some of the infection risks. Maybe try the 'real McCoy' additions after I try the beer. Guess I better look up some honey beer recipes now. I gave myself a craving.
 
Pretty simple reply here. Yes you can mash for 45 or less....it call comes to what you want your OG to be. You can mash for hours and still not get your OG...then what? Easy, add sugar or LME or DME to bring it up to what you want.

Boil....its used for 2 things....sanitization and bitterness. If I'm doing a Juicy Neipa which has no bittering hops, what's the point of boiling for an hour? Unless you need the water loss, then it's pointless if you think about it. I just brewed one last week, 10 min boil...that's it. If you want to boil for 30 mins, key is just find out the IBUs you need...calculate that for your 30 min edition instead of a 60 min. If you add 1 oz cascade hops at 60 mins....you would add probably 1.5-2 oz at the 30 min mark of a 30 min boil...all just depends on the IBU you are shooting for. Mess around with your recipes on this site, pretty easy actually figuring out 30 min or less boils...I'm doing them more often now.
thank you , im gonna try a 45 min mash and a 30 min boil next brew
 
I know this is about mashing, but since boiling is already mentioned...

What about the grains used?
I've been told it's better to boil pilsner malt for 90 minutes?
So it's not only about hops & ibu's ;)
 
I know this is about mashing, but since boiling is already mentioned...

What about the grains used?
I've been told it's better to boil pilsner malt for 90 minutes?
So it's not only about hops & ibu's ;)
Depends on the manufacturer. If you've got an older variety from a small manufacturer you might need to. If it's from a large maltster who's supplying one of the big pale lager brewers with the same grains it's probably not needed. Growers have been focusing on breeding out the DMS precursors in grain for a while now. Got to make things simpler for the big pale lager brewers who still buy most of what they grow.
 
Depends on the manufacturer. If you've got an older variety from a small manufacturer you might need to. If it's from a large maltster who's supplying one of the big pale lager brewers with the same grains it's probably not needed. Growers have been focusing on breeding out the DMS precursors in grain for a while now. Got to make things simpler for the big pale lager brewers who still buy most of what they grow.
Thanks, that's good to know!
Mine's grown & malted for a big brewery, so I should be fine and can reduce boil time :rolleyes:?
Now a quick trip to google to check what DMS tasted like
 
Growers have been focusing on breeding out the DMS precursors in grain for a while now. Got to make things simpler for the big pale lager brewers who still buy most of what they grow.

Comparing malted barley of 100 years ago and today , let alone today and 10 years ago is looking at quite a sea change. The drive to more enzymatic horsepower out of grains make me wonder about brewing some of these historic recipes or even a 10 year old "antique" ! How close can you really get to some resemblance of an old style when the ingredients name has stayed the same but the composition of that ingredient has been altered in the name of progress? It almost boils down to ....no pun intended....brewing something historically "inspired" rather than any attempt at historically accurate. Ok...rant off...I think I need a beer!
 
And doing that I found this: http://scottjanish.com/how-to-prevent-dms-in-beer/
Very interesting read
So don't listen to me and extend your boil is the moral of that article.

I do the foil covering for my saisons, which is where I use most of my pilsner grain. Maybe that's what's been saving me. And I'm a 60 minute boiler for the pilsner grain beers. Mainly because I've been too lazy to update the recipes.
 
I've been doing 90 minute boil on my 100% pilsner beers...
Just because it was advised. But I agree it's probably not necessary.
I'll do an easy beer one of these days with 100 % pilsner and a short boil.

I like all experimentation as a lot of information is based on "convential" brewing wisdom and may no longer be valid (like racking to secondary etc)
 
I know this is about mashing, but since boiling is already mentioned...

What about the grains used?
I've been told it's better to boil pilsner malt for 90 minutes?
So it's not only about hops & ibu's ;)

I've done a 30 minute boil on my last 3 batches of Pilsner and have never had an issue. My recipe is pretty basic, just mashing 10.5 lbs of pilsner...then boil for 30 mins...and dont add any hops until the last 5 mins of the boil. Pretty tasty every time.
 

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