Mash Thickness question.

[Triskele]

I have absolutely zero experience with all grain brewing. I want to start but while I am in the process of obtaining the equipment I am trying to understand the why's and how to do it.
I'm reading and watching videos to obtain the knowledge and relying on the wisdom of the members on this forum.
I just watched a video with John Palmer from Northern Brewing and it raised a question. After calculating your total water volume to obtain your preboil volume he says divide that in half and that is the volume that goes into your mash. The other half is used for your sparge.
I understand the problem of too low a water/grain ratio but I can only see positives to having excess water in my mash tun. It would be better to decrease the space above the mash to help retain heat.
Am I missing something?
I am interested in obtaining experience so I'm trying to keep it simple.

 

[Minbari]

so in theory a thicker mash will result in a more fermentable beer. I am sure there is something to this, but I would be willing to bet that at the volumes we are brewing, it makes so little difference as to be a zero-burger. personally I find a grist that is too thick hard to deal with. cant stir it, wont drain for crap, recirc on my herms wont function. so I generally go with thinner.

for my $0.02 for someone that is just starting out in all grain. there are alot more important things to get right. this would be 48/50 on the list

If you subscribe to these guys. they have ussualy tested every thought on the planet.

https://brulosophy.com/2016/02/15/t...in-liquor-to-grist-ratio-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Craigerrr]

There is no 100% right, or 100% wrong answer, kind of like Goldilocks and her porridge...
Rule of thumb however would be Generally between 1.0-2.0 quarts per pound (2.0-4.0 liters per kg).
Too thick - tough mix and stir the mash
Too thin - for one thing pH may be higher and could affect starch conversion adversely, another would be not having enough space to mash really thin.

At the end of the day, you will split your mash and sparge water to a degree, splitting in half however I wouldn't recommend as a hard rule, maybe you misheard, or misread something there.

Here is information on water volumes in general, this video was an aha! moment for me early on, hope it helps you too

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

Homebrew guru Denny Conn says he gets better efficiency with a thin mash (about 1.7 qt/lb). When I started following that advice, my efficiency also went up. Something else I leaned from him is that it is better to have the output volumes match. So my strike water is usually about 6 gallons and my batch sparge water is about 4 gallons. The wort drawn off from each is about 4 gallons. I use the recipe calculator on this site to determine volumes.

 

[Triskele]

Homebrew guru Denny Conn says he gets better efficiency with a thin mash (about 1.7 qt/lb). When I started following that advice, my efficiency also went up. Something else I leaned from him is that it is better to have the output volumes match. So my strike water is usually about 6 gallons and my batch sparge water is about 4 gallons. The wort drawn off from each is about 4 gallons. I use the recipe calculator on this site to determine volumes.

Does the Mash Calculator on this site take into account the water that is absorbed by the grain (0.5 qrt/lb) which is a loss?

 

[Triskele]

Does the Mash Calculator on this site take into account the water that is absorbed by the grain (0.5 qrt/lb) which is a loss?

So, if my desired preboil volume is 7g (28qt) and I use 10lb of grain. Then my water loss due to grain absorption is 5qt.
The volume of my strike water should be 19qt and the volume of my sparge should be 14qt.

 

[Minbari]

So, if my desired preboil volume is 7g (28qt) and I use 10lb of grain. Then my water loss due to grain absorption is 5qt.
The volume of my strike water should be 19qt and the volume of my sparge should be 14qt.

In theory.

I would go less on the sparge and check your gravity before the boil. Things don't always work out as planned and it's easier to add less than take it out later

 

[Donoroto]

Does the Mash Calculator on this site take into account the water that is absorbed by the grain (0.5 qrt/lb) which is a loss?

Yes

Palmer is great, he taught me How To Brew, but sparging with half your water might be overkill. As an example, I brew 5 gallon batches, starting with 8 gallons of water. I usually mash with 6.25 gallons and sparge with the remaining 1.75 gallons.

Some folks don't sparge at all. It is nice to wash the goodness out of the grain, but not required.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I don't. You don't need to with BIAB. My 5 gallon batches: 8 gallons strike water. The grain in the bag will absorb 1, the boil will lose 1. Post boil is about 6. Losses from the kettle leave you close to 5 or 5.5. With BIAB, I can start around 7am, have my shit picked up, and maybe have myself out of the shower by noon.
I have a burner that sits low to the ground now, and a pulley set up under a ladder helps getting the bag out a lot. Got that idea thanks to these guys and girls on the forum.

 

[philjohnwilliams]

I've tried thicker and thinner mashes, and I can't really say I saw a difference, at least in terms of the quality of the final beer. I find thinner mashes (I do 1.5qt/lb) easier to stir, and it seems in my experience that the larger volume of water helps to maintain mash temperature a bit better, but in the end I think the most important thing is to choose one thickness and use it consistently.

 

[Blackmuse]

So, if my desired preboil volume is 7g (28qt) and I use 10lb of grain. Then my water loss due to grain absorption is 5qt.
The volume of my strike water should be 19qt and the volume of my sparge should be 14qt.

This depends on several other things like boil off rate etc... It can get pretty deep BUT you can start with some approximates (the standard settings in the Brewing Equipment section of Brewer's Friend) and then dial it down from there based on results of your first couple brews - if you take good notes.

Check out:

It might help... You have the right idea going so far!

 

[Zambi]

I don't. You don't need to with BIAB. My 5 gallon batches: 8 gallons strike water. The grain in the bag will absorb 1, the boil will lose 1. Post boil is about 6. Losses from the kettle leave you close to 5 or 5.5. With BIAB, I can start around 7am, have my shit picked up, and maybe have myself out of the shower by noon.
I have a burner that sits low to the ground now, and a pulley set up under a ladder helps getting the bag out a lot. Got that idea thanks to these guys and girls on the forum.

You dont need to with biab, but I do.
I sort of make the method (and theory) fit my equipment
I make 10 litre batches with a 10 litre pot

 

[The Brew Mentor]

My old school method for absorption has always worked close enough and is still employed today.
1/10th gallon per pound of grain. So with a 15 pound grain bill, you'll loose 1.5 gallons.
Boil off or evaporation is system specific and is as easy to determine as boiling water in your system for 15 minutes, measure the difference from start to finish and then multiply by 4 if your boil is an hour.
Keep in mind that the bigger the batch size will also need to consider shrink, and that is figured as the difference between hot and cold wort volume. I wouldn't even bother to think about that until you're doing at least 10 gallons.
Your math above looks good, but as stated earlier, I'd hold back a quart or two and adjust at the end of the boil.
Cheers,
Brian

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

Does the Mash Calculator on this site take into account the water that is absorbed by the grain (0.5 qrt/lb) which is a loss?

When editing a recipe click the "hamburger" icon in the Mash Guidelines section, then select "View Quick Water Requirements". That will show grain absorption and many other mash statistics

 

[Triskele]

My old school method for absorption has always worked close enough and is still employed today.
1/10th gallon per pound of grain. So with a 15 pound grain bill, you'll loose 1.5 gallons.
Boil off or evaporation is system specific and is as easy to determine as boiling water in your system for 15 minutes, measure the difference from start to finish and then multiply by 4 if your boil is an hour.
Keep in mind that the bigger the batch size will also need to consider shrink, and that is figured as the difference between hot and cold wort volume. I wouldn't even bother to think about that until you're doing at least 10 gallons.
Your math above looks good, but as stated earlier, I'd hold back a quart or two and adjust at the end of the boil.
Cheers,
Brian

So, to understand, collect a quart or two from the valve of the mash tun drain ( I don't know what this is called, wort after it comes off the grain) and save it to add to the volumn in my brew kettle "after" I've completed the boil?
After the wort has been cooled?
Would this open myself to contamination?

 

[Minbari]

So, to understand, collect a quart or two from the valve of the mash tun drain ( I don't know what this is called, wort after it comes off the grain) and save it to add to the volumn in my brew kettle "after" I've completed the boil?
After the wort has been cooled?
Would this open myself to contamination?

No, add a quart or two less water at the beginning. When your gravity is too high at the end, due to not enough water, you can can add it in and correct the gravity.

You can do it by boiling longer too, but that takes longer

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

No, add a quart or two less water at the beginning. When your gravity is too high at the end, due to not enough water, you can can add it in and correct the gravity.

You can do it by boiling longer too, but that takes longer

This brings up a very good point. Don't worry about boil volume as much as your gravity.

There are so many variables involved with mashing that it's hard to tell you what to do. The most common grist ratio is 1.5 quarts per pound. It works on most systems, so it's a safe place to start. Your sparge volume can vary, but your systems efficiency will affect your amount of sparge water. More efficient, the more water you can use, less efficient, less sparge water.

The bottom line is, just go for it. Record your volumes and gravities. Don't worry too much about boil volumes, instead focus on gravity. Don't worry about making mistakes, that's how you will learn. All great brewers started out in the same boat, so you're in good company.

To start out use the 1.5 quarts per pound rule. 10 pounds of grain requires 15 quarts. Then sparge with 2/3 of that amount (10 quarts) and see where it lands. Adjust as needed the next time. Get your gravity right first, a refractometer works really good for checking wort gravity during the brew. I use the 1.5 quart rule and then I sparge with about slightly more water than mash water because of my systems mash efficiency.

 

[west1m]

And then you have the rebel, the one who makes rules on the fly. I always start with 5.5 gallons for 9 to 11 pounda and sparge to about 6.5 to 6.75 gallons depending on how much hops is going in dry hopping.
There's always one....

 

[Sandy Feet]

You do need to identify what kind up setup you want before discussing sparge volumes, etc too. Play around with some traditional brew day set ups VS the BIAB on YouTube to see which one is for you. We go back and forth with opinions here, but the traditional methods get better efficiency. BiAB at its simplest form is not efficient but easier than hell. Just set your efficiency calculator lower when you buy grain.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Lots of things to worry about when you are a big boy, but 5 gallons? Single vessel BIAB and bottled spring water. Make absolutely sure of your sanitation, pitch high with your yeast, control your mash temps and fermentation temps, and have a refrigerator with a $30 controller for fermentation. That is about 80 or 90% of it. The other things you can tweak.