Mash PH in recipe/calculator do not match

Discussion in 'Recipe Editor' started by Brewer #116488, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. Brewer #116488

    Brewer #116488 New Member

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    porter1.PNG porter2.PNG

    Which one can I trust?
     
  2. Brewer #116488

    Brewer #116488 New Member

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    #2 Brewer #116488, Sep 22, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    This is all very strange, my unit preference also gets deselected on refresh and Mash water should be 25L and Sparge water should be 3.5:
    porter3.PNG
     
  3. Brewer #116488

    Brewer #116488 New Member

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    #3 Brewer #116488, Sep 22, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    Update:
    I removed the Water Calculator link from the recipe and created a new one with the same values. The calculator pH is now 5.30 and the recipe pH is 5.31 (off by one). Is the v1.6 update breaking older calculations?
     
  4. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    I've had this issue too... them not matching.

    also when I save my water calc, I do 13 quarts total water, 10 mash, 3 sparge, ALL in quarts. But later when it comes back it changes it to something like 3.5 gallon total and changes all the units to quarts.

    I found that when I messed with all the units and made sure everything was exactly the same while actively editing the recipe and the water calc at the same time I got it to match up.

    But yes, I did have the same exact issue, I had a beer recipe telling me 5.22 mash pH and the water calc telling me 5.33.
     
  5. Myers

    Myers New Member

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    Yeah, I’ve had the same issue. I rely on the water calculator number, not the recipe displayed number.
     
  6. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I find that it works now, numbers match up if you follow the steps. If they ever don't match I just go back, save and update, then update the recipe again, then save the recipe again. For good measure I switch to view mode, and then go back to edit mode again.
     
  7. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I copied a recipe from another user, and have not been able to get the pH numbers to match, I have tried everything, save and update calculator, upodate grist from recipe, update recipe, save recipe. I have also tried removing the link and creating a new water calculator record, same result.
    What I have noticed is that not all of the items in the grist list in the recipe show up grist list in the calculater. I have a feeling that the pH reported in the recipe view is correct and the calculator is wrong. There is quite a disparity between the two numbers, calculator says 4.45, recipe says 4.36. Would the Mango addition during fermentation be affecting pH numbers displayed in the calculator and or the recipe?
    water1.JPG
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  8. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    The discrepancy is 0.09 points, fairly insignificant, but it is troubling that the recipe builder gets different results. The mango fruit may be causing the decrease, it does have some acidity, likely enough to drop the pH by that much. Try shifting the mango fruit to fermentables and see what happens to the pH. Or shift it to the Water Calculator.
     
  9. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I entered the wrong numbers in my post above
    5.45 in the Calculator
    4.36 in the recipe editor
    Difference is actually 1.09
    I will try removing the apple puree, and the mango, see what he result is
     
  10. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    okay, reporting back
    I removed the apple puree from the grain bill, and the pH changed to 5.45 immediately
    It is a late boil addition, so it would obviously not affect the mash pH
    It did drop the OG from 1066 to 1063, which makes sense

    I guess this is a bug though
    A late boil addition should not have an effect on mash pH

    Here is the recipe
    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/794124/tired-hands-milkshake-neipa
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
     
  12. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I am wondering why no Brewers Friend staff have commented on this, this appears to be a bug. By removing the late addition apple puree from the grist list, the mash pH is corrected.

    Am I supposed to put the puree in other ingredients?
     
  13. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    They will, I have a post in this same thread about the whirlpool hops not consistently yielding an IBU util. I think Yooper was away for a few days.
     
  14. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    We are working on this one- it’s been bugging me for ages. @Josh (Brewer's Friend) is the one driving this fix, and it’s been tough to pin down. Often, it’s very very close with just grains, if not dead on. Like, 5.45 in the water calculator but 5.44 in the recipe. We are painfully aware, and yet it’s not consistently doing it. I’ll tag Josh again, and keep you posted on that.
     
  15. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    A fix was deployed this morning, at least for the other ingredients that aren’t in the mash. So please try again and let me know if you have any further problems.
     
  16. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Yooper, thank you!
    I went to the recipe in question, clicked edit, and it updated the mash pH without having to edit the calculator and update the recipe.

    Much appreciated, thanks for all of your hard work!
    Craigerrr
     
  17. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I think I just found the issue. Does the pH calculator in the Recipe Builder assume all the water is treated? If so, you can get a discrepancy if you use different water treatments for the mash and sparge in the Water Calculator. I just finished a recipe, got the pH to 5.4 using only salts in the mash (sparge water not treated). When I got back to the Recipe Builder it was reporting a value of 5.45, which would match what I'd have in the Water Calculator if I were treating all my water with the same amount of salts. Bottom line, you aren't looking for a bug. The calculators are working as designed. There just may be some user error involved....
     
  18. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Very good point for those still having issues with mash pH not matching up.
    I am, and have been treating the entire water volume for the batch, and I believe I have the calculator settings set to reflect this.
    I haven't had any issues except for the apple puree late boil addition skewing the mash pH, which is now corrected.
    Thanks Nosy
     

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