Mango Jack's Saison yeast

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by The Green Man, May 26, 2020.

  1. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    #1 The Green Man, May 26, 2020
    Last edited: May 26, 2020
    Hello fellow brewing brethren. I am back to brewing after an extended break. Great to see this site is still going great guns and many good brew buddies still on it.
    Bottled a very good Amber Ale on Sunday and am almost ready to go with a Saison. I have a packet of Mango Jack's Saison yeast to use.
    Anyone used this?
    This is my first Saison. I have read that I should keep the temp about 18c for the first four days until high krausen subsides and let it free rise and even heat to 30c for the remaining time. Then, rack a secondary and pitch a champagne yeast to clear up.
    Recipe is 'Saison to be cheerful' (figured it should be ready by the time lockdown is relaxed)
    Any pointers, past experiences welcome.
     
  2. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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  3. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I'd say it depends on what you want expressed from the yeast. It's been awhile since I've used saison yeast but I'm pretty sure from memory I pitched around 20c and just let the yeast free rise from there yes and then push it up around late 20's celcius to finish out.
     
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  4. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I'm similar to Ben, pitch around 18C and just control ambient temperature (20C) for the first few days, then try and keep it around 23C to finish. I'm sure I can go higher, but the yeasts I use (bottle dregs from a few different breweries) don't seem to have any problem fully attenuating so haven't tried to push them.

    Haven't tried that yeast, but it calls itself French. They seem to be good attenuators that really won't mind what you do to it. I hear they're generally more subtle and people try more heat to get more yeast profile. I was thinking of using them for a rhubarb saison where I wanted to balance the rhubarb and yeast flavours, so keen to see how it goes.

    Recipe seems fine to me, should make a nice slightly malty version.
     
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  5. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Was just watching Genius Brewing podcast and they mentioned Diastaticus Saison yeast something to keep in mind I think for that ultra low final gravity and if you bottling keep this in mind.:)
     
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  6. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Oh just had another peep at the recipe you really don't need the Champaign yeast the saison will chew up all the sugars and attenuate that beer am things considered to at least 1.006 if not more.
     
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  7. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    I’ve used that yeast a few times. I started it 19 C and held it there about a week and then started bumping it up a half degree a day for about a week.

    I’ve used three different dry Saison yeasts: Mangrove Jack, Danstar, and Safale. I think my favorite is the Danstar. They each have a bit different taste and have slightly different attenuation characteristics. Mostly a matter of personal preference.
     
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  8. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Cheers guys. All of your input is much appreciated. Going to brew this bad boy tomorrow.
     
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  9. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Well, pitched yesterday morning into wort that was around 22c.Took a while to get going but has just started forming krausen now. It has about a third of the fermenter as head space, so not thinking I will need a blow-off tube. Also read about 'no cover' fermentation for these yeasts. Not really 'no cover', they mean loose foil over the top of the fermenter/carboy rather than traditional airlock or blow-off. Thinking is that it might be pressure sensitive yeast and this is the cause of stalls. I will just see how it goes and might use the foil method if things get bonkers.
    Also pitched a splash of this into an experimental kvas. No action from that yet but OG was only 1.010, so there isn't exaclty a feast in there for them anyway:D
     
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  10. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Your on the money there green man I'm sure wheat beer yeast also doesn't like a lot of head pressure. I'm sure there won't be much pressure if using airlock more so if you were fermenting in a massive fermentation cylindrical vessel which naturally causes a lot of pressure on the yeast. I'm sure at our batch sizes we won't have much to worry about.
     
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  11. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    #11 The Green Man, Jun 9, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
    This yeast was interesting. Pitched at about 22c, but didn't seem to get going for a while. From Day 7 pushed it up 1-2 degrees from then day 12-14 between 28c-30c. The gravity samples were steadily 1.002 on day 12 and 14.
    Gravity samples tastes really authentically Belgian with no fuels or off flavours (always a worry when pushing the temps to the stratosphere).
    All bottled. 3.5 vols. Quite a lot of sugar solution in for bottling. Bit of rattling from the bottle tops after bottling. I place them on to keep out nasties and then cap them when I'm done. Keeping an eye on the tops for bulging and fridge any that show it.
    Does anyone else see this rattling? Saw it on my last brew at 3.0 volumes too. No bottle bombs with those. I did the same by putting any with even slightly bulging caps in the fridge.
     
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  12. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I'd say it's carbonation escaping from the bottled beer combined with the sugar addition.
     
  13. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    So on Tuesday night we had a Zoom party with old school buddies. So I decided to crack open a bottle of this. I thought the bottle top had been showing signs that it was carbed. The pressed part in the middle no longer showed, plus given the rattling at bottling time, I put in the fridge to avoid potential bottle bomb and thought no more.
    Opened it....flat....lesson learned there.
    But, my word, it is a beauty. I can't say it is a Saison (which I haven't tasted and seems an amorphous thing anyway) but it had all the taste of a Belgian ale. Nice phenolic start and then a lovely fruity finish. I know the yeast munched to 97% attenuation, so this isn't sugar. I brewed a Belgian before but this knocks that one sideways. I think I have found my 'go to' Belgian yeast. Suits my taste anyway.
     
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  14. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Put all my 'potential bottle bombs' back with the others with a towel over them. Would actually like some carbonation :)
     
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  15. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    We live an learn Green man brew- drink-repeat;)
     
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  16. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    I mostly make Belgian beers and in particular, I make a lot of saison. The saison should be light bodied, fruity, and maybe a bit spicy. The traditional Saisons were low gravity, 3.0-3.5%, because they were made for the farm workers and you didn't want them to fall off the hay wagon.

    Modern saisons tend to be heavier and a lot of breweries end up with 7.5-8.5% ABV. I think that is way too high. I try to brew mine to be more in line with the traditional low ABV versions, usually around 5.0-5.5% ABV. Of course, since you are making the beer, you can make it any way you like.

    I have gotten rave reviews at the local beer festivals with my Saisons, although I do think that part of this is due to all of the other local homebrewers showing up with overhopped IPA's. I seemed to have the only beer that wasn't overly bitter.

    If you like Saison, you might also want to try making a Belgian Pale Ale.
     
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  17. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Thanks Bubba Wade. I put a lot of oats into this with an eye on head retention and a worry about the attenuation making it thin.
    Do you think a multi-rest mash is the way to go with Saison? Would that give you the proper head retention without relying on adjuncts?
     
  18. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    My recipe uses a single infusion mash at 150 degrees. 2-row malt, flakes corn, wheat malt, and just a bit of Special B.

    The wheat malt works well for head retention. The flaked corn keeps it light.
     
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  19. Megary

    Megary Well-Known Member

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    @Bubba Wade , have you ever open fermented your Saisons through the primary stages of fermentation? Maybe a little foil over the opening? Then airlock after a few days. I've read that some Saison yeasts (notably WLP565) can be pressure sensitive and could stall. I've never seen that with WY3711 but next weekend I'll be using Belle Saison for the first time.
     
  20. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I get the feeling that the history of Saison has been cleaned up to make it an easier narrative. There's evidence that makes things a bit more complicated with stronger industrial Saisons in northern Belgium cropping up at the same time as the earliest documented examples of farmhouse versions. This isn't to say the things we've seen are wrong, just the evidence is more complicated than is often portrayed.

    Even with the farmhouse versions Saison was made stronger to enable it to last the 3-4 months and to minimise the chance of lactobacillus changing the flavour. So more hops and more alcohol than the table beer that would have been regularly brewed at farmhouses. So I can see some justification for the high ABVs of today.

    And there's a fair bit of evidence of really strong beers coming out of farmhouse brewing in northern Europe at the same time as the earliest saison records. It feels like the ABV range of historical saison has been taken from a small amount of evidence like Lacambre and applied a bit more generally than is reasonable.

    Personally I like both the low and relatively high ABV versions, though the real top end ones tend to lose me.
     
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