Low OG every time even with extract brewing...

[Cliffy&Norm]

I have a Vevor brewing system and it works great. I can follow a recipe but the OG is low and the alc% is low in the end. I'm off by 1-2% consistently. I just plugged in two recipes into Brewer's friend and brewed them recently and was off at about .01 on the low side for the OG. One thing that may matter is I leave roughly a gallon of beer in the bottom of the kettle when I transfer, is that making enough of a difference in my gravity reading?

 

[Megary]

I think it’s pretty hard to miss OG with extract brewing. The PPG numbers for the extract are near rock solid. And I don’t think you actually are missing anything. It’s just that your water volume numbers are off. You are either starting with too much water, not boiling long enough or not boiling vigorously enough to reduce the wort to the proper post-boil volume.

Can you post all the details to your last recipe? I‘m sure someone here will spot the problem.

 

[Herm brews]

Being a point or two low on OG is not a big deal. I have no experience with extract brewing, and don’t know what kind of volumes you start and end with, but why are you leaving a whole gallon of wort in your kettle?

 

[Josh Hughes]

Yeah don’t leave that gallon. It’s probably figured into the estimated OG. If you have extra then you either didn’t boil off enough, added to much water, or are leaving the good stuff behind

 

[Minbari]

I have a Vevor brewing system and it works great. I can follow a recipe but the OG is low and the alc% is low in the end. I'm off by 1-2% consistently. I just plugged in two recipes into Brewer's friend and brewed them recently and was off at about .01 on the low side for the OG. One thing that may matter is I leave roughly a gallon of beer in the bottom of the kettle when I transfer, is that making enough of a difference in my gravity reading?

really wouldnt matter how much you left behind, unless you top up with clear water. if the SG is correct, then it would be correct.

one thing I learned early on. dont brew for volume, brew for gravity. if you get your gravity correct, weather you end up with 4 gallons or 5.5 at the end. if the gravity is correct it will turn out correct. so, always take a reading before you are done boiling. if you are low on gravity, boil longer. if it is high, then add some water.

 

[Megary]

This is why I’m of the opinion that the pre-boil gravity reading is way more important than the post-boil. At least you can make any necessary adjustments knowing where you are at pre-boil.

 

[Cliffy&Norm]

I think it’s pretty hard to miss OG with extract brewing. The PPG numbers for the extract are near rock solid. And I don’t think you actually are missing anything. It’s just that your water volume numbers are off. You are either starting with too much water, not boiling long enough or not boiling vigorously enough to reduce the wort to the proper post-boil volume.

Can you post all the details to your last recipe? I‘m sure someone here will spot the problem

I think it’s pretty hard to miss OG with extract brewing. The PPG numbers for the extract are near rock solid. And I don’t think you actually are missing anything. It’s just that your water volume numbers are off. You are either starting with too much water, not boiling long enough or not boiling vigorously enough to reduce the wort to the proper post-boil volume.

Can you post all the details to your last recipe? I‘m sure someone here will spot the problem.

Here's the recipe... I ended up at 1.06 OG instead of 1.086 like the program predicted... 1.086 is too high for what I want but knowing that if I shoot high I'll end up lower since that's been the theme. I boiled 6 gal of water, probably lost half a gallon and was anticipating a full gallon. Transferred 4.5 gallons to ferment in corny keg. So I left about a gallon in the kettle. I read Brewing Classic Styles and he said plan on losing 1 gallon to the boil but I don't think I'm losing that much to the boil but since it's extract brewing then that shouldn't really matter... Or am I wrong?

 

[Herm brews]

You have to figure the boil off rate for your equipment, nobody else can do that for you. Even if following someone else’s recipe, you need to know what your system does. It might help you to put a couple gallons in your system, boil for an hour to determine your boil off rate, then use that rate specific to your system.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

This is why I’m of the opinion that the pre-boil gravity reading is way more important than the post-boil. At least you can make any necessary adjustments knowing where you are at pre-boil.

You need to know the pre-boil gravity for sure, it helps nail the end of boil gravity.

Boil for gravity, not volume. You will have some "waste" from extract brewing, some wort is always left in the kettle. You may leave some behind to avoid getting hops in the fermenter or whatnot. You need to account for waste to hit your intended volume and OG.

That gallon of wort left behind has the extract you bought for the beer, but instead is turned into waste. That's way too much to leave behind. Simply put, you used too much water or you didn't boil enough. Next time add less water, check the gravity and if it's too high add more water before cooling to maintain sanitary conditions. It's easier to add water than to take it out.

Get familiar with Brewers Friend's calculator, it will help you hit you intended OG.

 

[Cliffy&Norm]

You have to figure the boil off rate for your equipment, nobody else can do that for you. Even if following someone else’s recipe, you need to know what your system does. It might help you to put a couple gallons in your system, boil for an hour to determine your boil off rate, then use that rate specific to your system.

I don’t boil with the lid on, I would imagine that would be a factor as well. Is it standard to have it on or off?

 

[Sandy Feet]

You are not supposed to boil with the lid on.
That is A LOT of steeping grain, and maybe you are not getting all of the sugars out of it, thus the OG errors. 1.086 to 1.06 is a big deal. 1.06 to 1.057, not as much.
I remember doing extract kits when I started, and I didn't even have that much steeping grain for a stout. How the hell did you fit that in the sock?
Since you need to add water at the end for an extract anyway, that should fix any problem- Add less water.

 

[Minbari]

I don’t boil with the lid on, I would imagine that would be a factor as well. Is it standard to have it on or off?

Don't boil with the lid on. You will have cream corn beer, lol.

DMS needs to be boiled off

 

[Daniel Parshley]

Don't waste that wort and use a strainer to catch the hops and any other debris. The slight deviation in O.G. is normal. I made a batch yesterday and today that were the same other than the yeast used. One had a BRIX of 15.1 and the other was 15.9, or in other words it was a measured O.G of 1.058 and 1.62. My ferment vessels have gallon marks and the difference between the two batches is around a quart. A little bit more volume makes a difference you can measure. The BF program says I should have an O.G. of 1.060.

 

[Megary]

Don't boil with the lid on. You will have cream corn beer, lol.

DMS needs to be boiled off

I boil with my lid in various levels of partially on/off. For me, the lid acts as a damper, so to speak. I can get a much faster, rolling boil with the lid more "on" than "off". Does a faster, rolling boil matter? Not sure.

Interesting that Brulosophy did a few experiments regarding boiling with the lid on vs. off. Neither produced a significant result and DMS was not detected either way. There might be other ways to rid ourselves of DMS than just leaving the lid off?? Not sure on that either. I've never knowingly detected DMS so I'm not the right person to answer.

I guess the point of this post is just to prove that I know nothing.

 

[Herm brews]

I am pretty sure the point of boiling the wort is to concentrate the sugars in the wort. In order for the steam to escape the kettle, the lid must be off of the kettle (either partially or fully off). So the escaping steam reduces the amount of water in the wort, thereby increasing the concentration of sugars in the wort. Increasing the concentration of sugars in the wort is measured as an increase in the specific gravity of the wort.

 

[Herm brews]

I boil with my lid in various levels of partially on/off. For me, the lid acts as a damper, so to speak. I can get a much faster, rolling boil with the lid more "on" than "off". Does a faster, rolling boil matter? Not sure.

Interesting that Brulosophy did a few experiments regarding boiling with the lid on vs. off. Neither produced a significant result and DMS was not detected either way. There might be other ways to rid ourselves of DMS than just leaving the lid off?? Not sure on that either. I've never knowingly detected DMS so I'm not the right person to answer.

I guess the point of this post is just to prove that I know nothing.

You know plenty, and prove it by regularly brewing beer that you enjoy drinking. Keep on keeping on!

 

[Herm brews]

I don’t boil with the lid on, I would imagine that would be a factor as well. Is it standard to have it on or off?

Lid off is standard, unless you have a steam condenser like some of our friends who brew in basements and other situations where allowing the steam into the brewing environment results in indoor rain.

 

[Herm brews]

I have a Vevor brewing system and it works great. I can follow a recipe but the OG is low and the alc% is low in the end. I'm off by 1-2% consistently. I just plugged in two recipes into Brewer's friend and brewed them recently and was off at about .01 on the low side for the OG. One thing that may matter is I leave roughly a gallon of beer in the bottom of the kettle when I transfer, is that making enough of a difference in my gravity reading?

I have reread your post a few times, and now have a little better understanding of what you are stating. As an example, you might target an abv of 6%, but your finished beer comes in at 4% to 5%. That is pretty significant. Concerning OG, if you are targeting, for example 1.060 but achieving 1.050, that is again pretty significant.
In the recipe builder here on Brewers Friend, it relies on the user to input good info in the equipment profile. If the equipment profile does not provide accurate info, the recipe builder will in turn provide targets that cannot be achieved. Check this out for help in setting up your equipment profile https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/setting-up-your-equipment-profile.13549/
Some of these details might take a few trials to dial in, but good things take time.

 

[Cliffy&Norm]

You are not supposed to boil with the lid on.
That is A LOT of steeping grain, and maybe you are not getting all of the sugars out of it, thus the OG errors. 1.086 to 1.06 is a big deal. 1.06 to 1.057, not as much.
I remember doing extract kits when I started, and I didn't even have that much steeping grain for a stout. How the hell did you fit that in the sock?
Since you need to add water at the end for an extract anyway, that should fix any problem- Add less water.

2.25 lbs of steeping grain is a lot? I got a grain basket it all could fit in.

 

[Cliffy&Norm]

I have reread your post a few times, and now have a little better understanding of what you are stating. As an example, you might target an abv of 6%, but your finished beer comes in at 4% to 5%. That is pretty significant. Concerning OG, if you are targeting, for example 1.060 but achieving 1.050, that is again pretty significant.
In the recipe builder here on Brewers Friend, it relies on the user to input good info in the equipment profile. If the equipment profile does not provide accurate info, the recipe builder will in turn provide targets that cannot be achieved. Check this out for help in setting up your equipment profile https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/setting-up-your-equipment-profile.13549/
Some of these details might take a few trials to dial in, but good things take time.

Thanks for your time and wisdom! I appreciate it. I'll setup that profile and get more dialed in, things will make sense more and more.