Lager help - hoppier than traditional

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by goschman, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Active Member

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    Any thoughts?

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/307796/hopfenbier

    Malt bill is locked in and already milled. Going for something hoppy but still want lager characteristics to come through. I've used everything except hallertau blanc and think the hops will work well instead of new school American hops with high oil content. Does 35 IBUs seem about right for a beer like this?
     
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  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Not sure on the hop combination - whenever I work with anything German I tend to stick with the classic noble hops. Also, for an Export, 35 IBUs might be a little on the low side. I have some DAB in my refrigerator and remember well my Bitburgers and Kirners from my time in Germany - they're pretty danged bitter on the finish. But hey, brew it and let us know how it turns out!
     
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  3. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Active Member

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    #3 Iliff Avenue Brewhouse, Nov 5, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
    I don't brew to style that often so you can ignore the style. Not trying to hit a style just going for a "hoppy lager". It matched closest to a Dort with the exception of being too bitter for the style so I just threw that in there. It's all German ingredients but it will have a lot more hop character than any German beer. Basically new school German ingredients with American process...

    I recently did what I called a Euro Pale that was all European ingredients but brewed like an APA. Turned out great. Kind of going for the the same idea but as a lager with less malt character.
     
  4. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I've done the same, a hoppy lager using Noble hops. I was thinking the tangerine flavor of the Mandarina and the melon flavor of the Huell Melon might not combine well but hey, prove me wrong! I'm not that familiar with Hallertau Blanc but absolutely love Hersbruecker.
     
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  5. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Active Member

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    Awesome thanks. I'm expecting a pretty moderately fruity hop character with some noble characteristics which will be interesting. I get light citrus from MB, melon and generic fruitiness from HM, and HB is supposedly supposed to add some additional fruitiness and white wine characteristics.

    Maybe I will consider ditching one of the hops and replacing with something more traditional like mittelfruh
     
  6. BoomerBrian

    BoomerBrian Active Member

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    I made a pilsner with Hallertau Mittelfruh and Mandarina Bavaria whirlpooled. I liked the combination. Kind of reminded me a Blue Moon with an orange wedge.
     
  7. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Active Member

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    Yeah my house pilsner is mittelfruh at the end of the boil and mandarina bavaria dry hopped. Love it. Inspired by Deschutes Pacific Wonderland. That being said, that beer is pretty much a dry hopped pilsner and it is less hoppy than I am going for in this beer.
     
  8. BoomerBrian

    BoomerBrian Active Member

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    I can't get Deschutes in Oklahoma so I have never tried the Pacific Wonderland but that is also where I got the idea for that combination.

    Fresh Squeezed in one of my favorite IPAs.
     
  9. ChicoBrewer

    ChicoBrewer Well-Known Member

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    Sierra Nevada makes a good Hoppy Lager. It comes in a variety pack. I wish I didn't have to buy the pack to get the hoppy lager. It's the best one in the mix.

    https://sierranevada.com/beer/variety-packs/hoppy-lager

    Overview
    • Alcohol Content 7.0% by volume
    • Beginning gravity 15.3° plato
    • Ending Gravity 2.4° plato
    • Bitterness Units 55

    Ingredients
    • Yeast Lager yeast
    • Bittering Hops Magnum
    • Finishing Hops Amarillo, Comet, Mosaic, Citra, Ekuanot, El Dorado, Simcoe, Tettnang
    • Malts Two-row Pale, Munich, Caramel, Acidulated
     
  10. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Active Member

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    That is a good beer but I’m looking more for feedback on what I already have. I’m going for something more sessionable that’s not an India pale lager.
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I think you should go with what you proposed. If you don't feel confident in it, brew a smaller batch. Or try your hop combination on a very small (say a gallon) extract batch. You can test without committing to a full-sized batch and I'm interested in hearing how your idea comes out. I've loved the hoppy lagers I've done but as mentioned above, I've stuck to more traditional ingredients.
     
  12. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Active Member

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    #12 Iliff Avenue Brewhouse, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
    Thanks bear. Planning on a lower mash pH and a yellow bitter profile with a bit more so4. First time using this yeast so hoping for good things there.
     
  13. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    #13 thunderwagn, Nov 6, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
    There doesn't have to be any American hops to still come off great. Prima Pilsner by Victory being a fine example. Uses Hallertau, Tettnang, Saaz, & Spalt Select and comes in around 45 IBU's. Damn fine beer I might add.
     
  14. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I am interested in seeing how Huell Melon and Mandarina Bavaria pair, though. I'm the "traditionalist" when it comes to my German beers, interested in seeing what can come of something else used.

    By the way, the "hoppy lager" made with only light malts is awfully close, stylistically, to what used to be called a North German Exportbier. When I lived there, I was in the western side of Germany and the Pilsners there tended to be very bitter, definitely in the APA range (although with the different hops, not as hop-flavored). I loved them made with Noble hops then, I love them today.
     
  15. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Active Member

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    There seems to be some confusion regarding my goals. I'm not using American hops. I'm not trying to brew a German lager. I'm basically brewing a lager with German ingredients and American processes as far as more late hops and dry hops.

    I've had Prima Pils. Delicious however that's not the beer I'm trying to make. Sorry for the confusion. I should probably stick to posting about standard styles.
     
  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't stick to posting about standard styles. We may try to "pigeonhole" unusual beers into them but I think I understand what you want to make. Your beer will not be like mine - I stick to the traditional hops - nor will it be like the Western German lagers I mentioned - they used traditional noble hops and no late hopping. I think you will produce something interesting and hey, it's Reinheitsgebot-compliant (as long as you don't add mineral acids and salts but hey, I won't tell). I may do a lot of discussing but hey, I'm intrigued....
     
  17. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Active Member

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    I realize I might be coming off as a brat which is not my intention. Just trying to add some clarification I suppose. Haha.

    I would love to take a crack at a hoppy German lager using noble hops some time and think I would really enjoy it. Even my rendition of German Pilsner isn't traditional although it satisfies my desire for one. I think my Kolsch and Maibock might be the only German styles that are reasonably traditional (not taking into account single infusion mashes, etc).
     
  18. thehaze

    thehaze Active Member

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    I am planning to brew a hoppy Vienna Lager ( using 100% Weyermann Vienna malt ) using the same hops, in the near future.

    Your recipe looks OK, albeit lackluster in hops for my taste, even for a hoppy lager, but I would advise against going 150 ppm sulfate. This will dry out the beer too much. 35 IBUs with the amount of sulfate you are planning on using will yield a pretty dry tasting beer.
     
  19. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Active Member

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    #19 Iliff Avenue Brewhouse, Nov 12, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
    That has not been my experience but at least it will be OK. My pilsner is 40 IBUs with about 135 ppm SO4 and is perfect for my tastes. This has the same water profile. Again, I'm going for a hoppy lager in the sense of an APA. If I wanted to bomb it with hops I would just brew an IPA

    It sounds like calling something a hoppy lager was a bad choice. I will change the subject title...
     
  20. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Nah, go ahead and call it a hoppy lager! And brew your beer. What you'll likely get with that much sulfate will be more along the lines of an Exportbier but hey, those are great as well. 40 IBUs for a Pilsner is not high.
     

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