JAPANESE LAGER (KIND OF)

[Phu Quoc Brewerie]

hi guys, i made this rice lager 4 times and 4 times i have a really bad taste in mouth, cannot explain the taste but no possible to sell this.

1-ok so i think i don t understand how to cook the rice , but to explain i overcook with more water until the rice make kind of gelatine.... then i incorpore to my mash...
2- maybe 60 minutes boil is not enough and 90 minutes will solve the problem....
3- maybe i should stop this rice lager.....

please guys i need your feed back (and sorry if i didn t explain good)

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1497398/test-rice-beer-modified

 

[Yooper]

hi guys, i made this rice lager 4 times and 4 times i have a really bad taste in mouth, cannot explain the taste but no possible to sell this.

1-ok so i think i don t understand how to cook the rice , but to explain i overcook with more water until the rice make kind of gelatine.... then i incorpore to my mash...
2- maybe 60 minutes boil is not enough and 90 minutes will solve the problem....
3- maybe i should stop this rice lager.....

please guys i need your feed back (and sorry if i didn t explain good)

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1497398/test-rice-beer-modified

the recipe is marked private, so we can't see it.

 

[Phu Quoc Brewerie]

oups the link
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1503258/asahi-clone-oli-

 

[Donoroto]

have a really bad taste in mouth, cannot explain the taste but no possible to sell this

It would be helpful if you could try to describe the bad taste. Even in Vietnamese (or whatever) if needed.

 

[Phu Quoc Brewerie]

It would be helpful if you could try to describe the bad taste. Even in Vietnamese (or whatever) if needed.

sorry for my stupidity, let say a strong taste, i don t know between astringeant or sulfure , kind of chemical taste, really strong, a bit like medcine maybe

 

[Sandy Feet]

Between the rice and the syrup, 34% of fermentables?
I think that might cause something to be a little off right there.
Why don't you try dialing the syrups and adjuncts back to under 10%, use a little grain, and see what happens. After all, it is beer right?

 

[Bigbre04]

Between the rice and the syrup, 34% of fermentables?
I think that might cause something to be a little off right there.
Why don't you try dialing the syrups and adjuncts back to under 10%, use a little grain, and see what happens. After all, it is beer right?

To add to what Sandy said, you might have better results adding in some Alpha amylase enzyme, or going more traditional and treating it like sake and then adding it to the beer and boiling.

https://www.northernbrewer.com/blog...Gg5Oy3hb_qRGIspZPLWBW2IuZmm1Ho9CF6Ki96MpmULER

another thing to look at is your water quality and what the ingredients in the rice syrup are. there may be some preservatives in there that dont play nice.

loving the voss yeast!

 

[Bigbre04]

upon further reading,

my guess is that your syrup might be the culprit.

this is a simple recipe that should be fairly repeatable. I would do this recipe as close as possible and taste it. hopefully it will turn out similar to the article.

https://brulosophy.com/2021/05/13/bru-it-yourself-japanese-rice-lager/

Another option that was posted on a different thread was using 'Minute' rice which is pregelatinized.

 

[Bigbre04]

Third message in a row, I used Voss a few times. I made a batch with Honey that ended up being very medicinal. It tasted like un aged mead. I dont know if you are familiar with that flavor, but if that is what you are tasting, that would be coming from the Voss.

If you try the above recipe with voss and it still tastes really off, consider switching yeasts. Since you have access to Apex, i would try their San Diego strain(chico).

@GFHomebrew Might be the best resource for this chain.

 

[Donoroto]

sorry for my stupidity, let say a strong taste, i don t know between astringeant or sulfure , kind of chemical taste, really strong, a bit like medcine maybe

No, not stupidity. You are smart!

Medicinal can be described also as band-aid or plastic. Hard to decribe.

It could be chlorine or chloramine in the water. Or it coukd be an infection with a wild yeast or brettomyces.

Visit this website to learn more about bad flavors in beer https://learn.kegerator.com/off-flavors-in-beer/

 

[Phu Quoc Brewerie]

ok guys, thanks for all this informations
so what i m going to do and why:
1- i m going down to 20% on rice and brown rice syrup (which is 100% brown rice syrup, no additives)
2- i try with instant rice (ordered already online , not so easy to find here , rice we have tons of it but instant rice it s only online)
3- i m going to keep lublin hops (they look appropriate and ok with voss kveik) ( and if i change everything in one time i will not understand why)
3- i stick with voss kveik (as i said somewhere , temperature 32 degres all year long and i add that i m on a small island with power cut at least 2 times a week, better then few years ago but still every week)

 

[Phu Quoc Brewerie]

i will do this beer on friday 13, and will keep you up to date on the 20 i think when i taste it......
please one more question: we all agree that brown rice syrup join the mash in the same time as the malt , right???????

 

[Phu Quoc Brewerie]

ok ok one more question
about the water my water is from the ground , filtration as normal and UF at the end....
what water profile you recommend for a japanese lager please

 

[Bigbre04]

ok ok one more question
about the water my water is from the ground , filtration as normal and UF at the end....
what water profile you recommend for a japanese lager please

do you have access to distilled water? I dont know if this is practical for you, but you could always look at RO or campden tablets?

does your water have any smell? Chlorine, sulphur, salt, etc?

 

[Bigbre04]

i will do this beer on friday 13, and will keep you up to date on the 20 i think when i taste it......
please one more question: we all agree that brown rice syrup join the mash in the same time as the malt , right???????

I would add the rice syrup to the kettle so that it is more efficient. otherwise you may leave some of the sugar in the mash.

 

[Phu Quoc Brewerie]

do you have access to distilled water? I dont know if this is practical for you, but you could always look at RO or campden tablets?

does your water have any smell? Chlorine, sulphur, salt, etc?

thanks for your help, no bro , water as no chlorine , result really clean , PH of 6.....not any kind of polluant ..... middle of countryside with no agriculture around.

 

[Phu Quoc Brewerie]

I would add the rice syrup to the kettle so that it is more efficient. otherwise you may leave some of the sugar in the mash.

you mean , beggining of the boil??

 

[Bigbre04]

you mean , beggining of the boil??

i generally throw sugars and such between 30 and 15 mins remaining in the boil. trying to add them slowly so they dont kill my boil. If i add them all at once, they really kill the boil.

thanks for your help, no bro , water as no chlorine , result really clean , PH of 6.....not any kind of polluant ..... middle of countryside with no agriculture around.

No problem, just checking. Well water around here has some Sulphur in it, if you dont filter it.

Please update us on the progress! i have never brewed with rice, but this is super interesting!

 

[Phu Quoc Brewerie]

i generally throw sugars and such between 30 and 15 mins remaining in the boil. trying to add them slowly so they dont kill my boil. If i add them all at once, they really kill the boil.

No problem, just checking. Well water around here has some Sulphur in it, if you dont filter it.

Please update us on the progress! i have never brewed with rice, but this is super interesting!

i will

 

[Sandy Feet]

Another idea: When I add sugars for an ESB or a Saison with the brew bag, I mash without the sugar. I lift the bag, and while the liquid is draining from the bag or just after, I will add the sugar to the kettle before I put the heat back on to begin the boil. The sugar gets some time to incorporate that way without the direct heat and the possible burning involved from the direct heat. If you are adding sugar and syrup to a kettle with the heat on, make sure you are stirring.
My Blichmann Burner gets hotter than hell. They actually call it a Hellfire. I am careful about what I do considering I can get 110,000 BTUs.