Italian Pilsner

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by Iliff Avenue Brewhouse, Jul 8, 2021.

  1. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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  2. Megary

    Megary Well-Known Member

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    I think it looks just fine though I honestly have no idea what that hop schedule will bring. Have you used that HM/Saphir/Callista combination before?
     
  3. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Saphir is used in Pivo Pils and is apparently very similar to noble hops so I don't expect any problems. I like experimenting with the new school German Hops. I have dry hopped with Callista before with good results. Not too worried about the hop combo.
     
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  4. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Looks good to me.:)
     
  5. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Active Member

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    If you run the hop additions for the OP's recipe through BF's stand alone IBU Calculator you get 58 IBU's, but the BF Recipe Builder (as linked in post #1 to this thread) shows that you get (as seen from opening the linked recipe) only 37 IBU's. That seems to be a rather huge discrepancy.

    I'm personally on the side of ~58 IBU's. But YMMV.
     
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  6. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    I’m brewing at altitude.
     
  7. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    There was an article on Italian lagers in one of the Big Three recently - can't remember which mag or when. Might reference that for hop suggestions. I like to brew to the recipe, at least the first time out, then experiment based on the results.
     
  8. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Active Member

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    You would have to live at 15,000 (or a bit more) feet above sea level whereby to turn 58 IBU's into 37 IBU's.
     
  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Ah 58ibu would make for a nice bitter pilsner I've not run one that high maybe I should:).
     
  10. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    #10 Iliff Avenue Brewhouse, Jul 9, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
    Not according to the calcs I have used which give me a utilization of around 65%. Thanks for assuming I don’t know what I’m doing. I seem to get that a lot. Ha!

    I’m actually on Everest…

    “So if we consider a typical mountain brewer at a location like Denver, CO where the altitude is 5000 feet (1500 meters), you can see that they are getting only about 67% or 2/3rd the utilization of a brewer at sea level. So they would need to add roughly 40% more hops or boil the hops much longer to achieve the same bitterness level in IBUs.”
     
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  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Here at 6k feet.... You always shoot for the top end of the IBU range.
     
  12. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    I’m at 5750. Was noticing my beers weren’t bitter enough and admittedly didn’t account for elevation for quite some time.
     
  13. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Iliff sounds local - I'm in SE Aurora. where are you?
     
  14. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    Green mountain. Lakewood
     
  15. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Active Member

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    #15 Silver_Is_Money, Jul 9, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2021
    Actually, the entire IBU's as correlating to altitude matter is new to me, so it's me who doesn't know what I'm doing in this ballpark, and you who does. (But I'd sure like to learn the science and math behind it)

    That said, the BF stand alone IBU calculator suggests 0.83 as the utilization multiplier for your 5,750 Ft. altitude, and 58 x 0.83 = 48 IBU's.
     
  16. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Active Member

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    "Nominal' boiling point at altitude for degrees F. = BP_Deg_F

    BP_Deg_F = 49.161 * ln(29.921 * (1 - 0.0000068753 * [altitude in feet])^ 5.2559) + 44.932

    (where 'ln' = natural log)

    Cut and paste everything to the right of the '=' sign from the formula into your calculator, and then replace '[altitude in feet]' with your local altitude in feet, then solve for boiling point in degrees F.
     
  17. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Active Member

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    The Garetz method:

    Garetz Altitude Utilization Multiplier = 1/(1 + [elevation in feet]/27500)

    Cut and paste everything to the right of the '=' sign from the formula seen above into your calculator, and then replace '[altitude in feet]' with your local altitude in feet, then solve for the altitude multiplier (factor).

    To get this multiplier down to a factor of 0.638 for an altitude of 5,750 feet, whereby to turn 58 IBU's into 37 IBU's would require this rather extreme alteration to the Garetz formula:

    Modified Altitude IBU Utilization Multiplier = 1/(1 + [altitude in feet]/10140)
     
  18. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Active Member

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    It appears that BF's stand alone IBU calculator is using the Garetz method.

    1/(1 + 5750/27500) = 0.82707 (which rounds to 0.83)

    I have no idea what method BF's Recipe Builder is using for hops utilization altitude correction.
     
  19. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Active Member

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    Of course all of this begs the question: "What altitude was Glen Tinseth at when he ran his IBU utilization experiments, and did he PROPERLY correct them for altitude?"

    To apply ANY presumed to be valid altitude correction method to Tinseth clearly demands an answer to this question. As it would render the application of any altitude correction method to 'Tinseth' invalid unless PROPERLY compensated for somehow.
     
  20. Silver_Is_Money

    Silver_Is_Money Active Member

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    And of course the biggest question of all is:

    Since Glen Tinseth admitted in a podcast that he never once tested a pellet hop, and he directly stated within the same podcast interview that for pellets "All bets are off", why do we even attempt to bother using Tinseth whereby to compute IBU's for pellet hops, when it is highly likely that it is not applicable, and Tinseth is telling us just this?
     
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