Ingredients and how they interact with minerality

[oliver]

Do malts and hops interact with minerality during the brew day (hot side)? Or does the flavor affect from minerality have no difference if you put it all in during cold side?

Especially hops.. Does boiling and whirlpooling hops in wort that has minerality content differ from a wort with no minerality and just a pH adjustment? Does the minerality content "activate" or do anything special to the hops as they go through isomerization, or is the minerality just how we perceive the final product?

But also, isn't there a decent amount of minerality contributed from the malts?

Any insights? I'm thinking of doing some water experiments, brewing 1 beer with two water profiles can be difficult to make, unless cold side minerality adjustments will contribute the same effect.

 

[Yooper]

Wow- I don’t know the answer to all of those but I’ll give it a try based on what I do know.

Minerality comes from the minerals of course- and yes, malt provides all the magnesium and calcium that the yeast need. If the beer tastes a bit minerally, it’s usually from a high value of chloride and sulfate (especially combined) and calcium.

Minerals in the water contribute greatly to the flavor of the beer; sulfate makes the beer seem drier, while chloride makes the beer seem fuller and more rounded. Magnesium, in excess amounts, gives a sour flavor to the beer. (And in amounts that are much much greater, a laxative effect, i.e. Milk of Magnesia).

Adding the the brewing salts pre or post boiling doesn’t change the flavor effect.

One common test that is done in sensory perception classes is to take Miller Lite and add a pinch of calcium chloride and taste it again. Then add some gypsum to a different sample and taste. You can find in an instant what they do to a beer.

 

[Yooper]

One other thing- some hops get very harsh when sulfate is used. I don’t know if it’s only in the boil or not(I suspect not), but this really seems pronounced with noble hops like hallertauer and tettnanger hops.

 

[oliver]

I know all the effects each mineral has, but typically we just throw all the minerals in the mash, and never worry about it.

Adding the the brewing salts pre or post boiling doesn’t change the flavor effect.

If this is true, then the answer is yes, I can add cold side minerals to each fermenter, and achieve the same thing as adding minerals in the mash. It'd be nice to only have to split the beer at the end to get as much consistency as possible. My only suspicion, as brought up in this topic, is not totally knowing if hops might isomerize in different ways with different mineral profiles.

I might have to brew two identical beers first, two brew days, 1 with hot side minerals and one with cold side minerals, and see if there's anything discernible.

 

[Craigerrr]

I know all the effects each mineral has, but typically we just throw all the minerals in the mash, and never worry about it.



If this is true, then the answer is yes, I can add cold side minerals to each fermenter, and achieve the same thing as adding minerals in the mash. It'd be nice to only have to split the beer at the end to get as much consistency as possible. My only suspicion, as brought up in this topic, is not totally knowing if hops might isomerize in different ways with different mineral profiles.

I might have to brew two identical beers first, two brew days, 1 with hot side minerals and one with cold side minerals, and see if there's anything discernible.

I sense a brulosophy exbeeriment!

 

[oliver]

I sense a brulosophy exbeeriment!

Didn’t even think to check there,
https://brulosophy.com/2015/12/14/w...tion-mineral-adjustments-exbeeriment-results/

edit: well, it didn’t totally answer my question about if minerality affects isomerization, but it does answer that you can manipulate beers post fermentation.

 

[oliver]

Now I’m thinking of it further, from what I’ve learned from scott Janish and his book, does minerality in wort during fermentation have any affect on biotransformation. I promise I’ll get around to testing all of these experiments.

 

[Mark Farrall]

I'd be surprised if it doesn't, problem is knowing what's the amount that changes things enough for our imperfect measuring devices to taste the difference. I'm guessing that you'll end up tasting the mineral long before you taste the effect of the mineral.

 

[GFHomebrew]

So what your asking @oliver does adding Salts to the boil vs post fermentation (keg) change the percieved hop flavours?
Interesting all I've found is there is alot of unknowns about this Biotransformation.

 

[oliver]

I'd be surprised if it doesn't, problem is knowing what's the amount that changes things enough for our imperfect measuring devices to taste the difference. I'm guessing that you'll end up tasting the mineral long before you taste the effect of the mineral.

You certainly could be right. Is the human palate good enough to know the difference? I do want to do some drastic though..

So what your asking @oliver does adding Salts to the boil vs post fermentation (keg) change the percieved hop flavours?
Interesting all I've found is there is alot of unknowns about this Biotransformation.

Yes, but I want to know more than that. If I add salts to the kettle before hops are thrown in, does that affect how the hops are isomerized? Do hops get less signature character, less isomerization, or less biotransformation if they don't have minerality? Or do all those precursors exist without minerals, and minerals just let us taste it?