I can't get my brews to taste of hops

[Rusty Shacklefood]

Hi all,

With the odd exception, I'm really struggling to make the hops sing in my IPAs.

I don't think quantity is the problem, as my brews are typically around 20L (4.4 gals) and I use 200g (7 oz) of dry hops, and often bung half that amount in the whirlpool. I probably use way too much in fact.

Could it be caused by oxydation? I bottle all my brews, which involves carefully syphoning out from the fermenter into a priming bucket. I'm very careful not to spash the beer around, and once it's in the priming bucket I cover it with cling flim. Even so, could it be this contact time with the oxygen that does the damage?

It's really getting quite annoying, as my beers are otherwise very sound, and I'm super anal with santising and cleanliness.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Enjoy your Friday evo chaps,
Cheers!

EDIT: I use only bold American hops like Simcoe, Chinook and Mosaic. Pretty sure I've got the water business down pat. I use just Maris Otter base malt and sometimes add Carapils.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Hi all,

With the odd exception, I'm really struggling to make the hops sing in my IPAs.

I don't think quantity is the problem, as my brews are typically around 20L (4.4 gals) and I use 200g (7 oz) of dry hops, and often bung half that amount in the whirlpool. I probably use way too much in fact.

Could it be caused by oxydation? I bottle all my brews, which involves carefully syphoning out from the fermenter into a priming bucket. I'm very careful not to spash the beer around, and once it's in the priming bucket I cover it with cling flim. Even so, could it be this contact time with the oxygen that does the damage?

It's really getting quite annoying, as my beers are otherwise very sound, and I'm super anal with santising and cleanliness.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Enjoy your Friday evo chaps,
Cheers!

What are the alphas of the hops you are using? Actually, what are the hops? When are your additions? American hops at different points in the boil should make that thing sing.
I am probably going to be asking for help for something hoppy in a few months, but I have done a Cascade Pale Ale that I liked. I did not dry hop, but I used hops at multiple places in the boil.
Also, are you doing an English version where there would be too much Crystal?
What about your water?

 

[Sandy Feet]

One more thing:
Have you played around with some different yeasts? There are all kinds of stuff out there now.

 

[Megary]

So many possibilities. Can you narrow it down a bit for us...

Generally speaking, hops contribute bitterness, aroma and flavor. Are you struggling with all 3 or just some part of this equation?

What hops you use and when are you add them are probably the biggest factors, but there is a laundry list of other things that could contribute to the impact of the hops.

No matter what the issue is though, the best advice I can give is to make sure your hops are FRESH. They should "pop" right out of the pouch.

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

What are the alphas of the hops you are using? Actually, what are the hops? When are your additions? American hops at different points in the boil should make that thing sing.
I am probably going to be asking for help for something hoppy in a few months, but I have done a Cascade Pale Ale that I liked. I did not dry hop, but I used hops at multiple places in the boil.
Also, are you doing an English version where there would be too much Crystal?
What about your water?

I use mostly bold American/New World hops like Simcoe, Mosaic, Chinook, and will continue to do so until I figure this problem out, as I won't get anything at all from Fuggles, EKG and the like.

Hard tap water, half a campden tablet, a few grams of gypsum. I'm pretty sure I've got the water down pat.

I don't use any cystal, just Maris Otter. Aside from bittering hops, I pretty much don't throw any more in till right near the end of the boil, often just for flamout. God, could this be the problem?

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

So many possibilities. Can you narrow it down a bit for us...

Generally speaking, hops contribute bitterness, aroma and flavor. Are you struggling with all 3 or just some part of this equation?

What hops you use and when are you add them are probably the biggest factors, but there is a laundry list of other things that could contribute to the impact of the hops.

No matter what the issue is though, the best advice I can give is to make sure your hops are FRESH. They should "pop" right out of the pouch.

Bitterness is never a problem, it's the aroma and flavour I struggle with. I use only bold American hops.

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

One more thing:
Have you played around with some different yeasts? There are all kinds of stuff out there now.

Yes, I've played around with yeasts a lot.

 

[Over The Cliff Brewing]

What's your dry hop schedule and how long do you dry hop? One thing I've learned is I get better dry hop goodness by just dropping them in. The best way to keep a decent yeast slurry is to bag or confine the hops to a spider of some sort. I do both.

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

What's your dry hop schedule and how long do you dry hop? One thing I've learned is I get better dry hop goodness by just dropping them in. The best way to keep a decent yeast slurry is to bag or confine the hops to a spider of some sort. I do both.

All pellet hops, I throw them in together for three days.

 

[Megary]

Interesting.

Does your hop flavor and aroma start out ok and then fade with time or are you never getting much to begin with? If it fades, that's probably oxidation and very common in the homebrew world. If you aren't getting any aroma and flavor to begin with, that could be a lot of things.

Where are you buying your hops?

 

[Rusty Shacklefood]

Interesting.

Does your hop flavor and aroma start out ok and then fade with time or are you never getting much to begin with? If it fades, that's probably oxidation and very common in the homebrew world. If you aren't getting any aroma and flavor to begin with, that could be a lot of things.

Where are you buying your hops?

Malt Miller (UK) are pretty good for hop freshness.

Pretty much no hop flavour from the beginning. I'm wondering if it's because my hopping regimen is too basic? Bittering hops at 60mins, then nothing till right at the end of the boil?

 

[ttsalo]

The priming bucket is for sure going to introduce some oxidation, with the beer being in contact with the air space, even if not sloshed around. I would eliminate it from the process, add priming sugar directly to bottles and fill them carefully from bottom up with a bottling wand directly from the fermenter. I think that's the best you can do at home without going to kegging.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Malt Miller (UK) are pretty good for hop freshness.

Pretty much no hop flavour from the beginning. I'm wondering if it's because my hopping regimen is too basic? Bittering hops at 60mins, then nothing till right at the end of the boil?

Try some different additions and try using American 2 Row.

 

[Donoroto]

Malt Miller (UK) are pretty good for hop freshness.

Pretty much no hop flavour from the beginning. I'm wondering if it's because my hopping regimen is too basic? Bittering hops at 60mins, then nothing till right at the end of the boil?

That does not seem at all too basic; this is what I do for many of my beers.

Have someone else - ideally someone who has a palate for beer - taste and see what they think.

Not saying this is you, but a friend works at a candle store, and a customer complained she bought one but it had no scent. Turns out her sense of smell was impaired...

 

[Sandy Feet]

Also, your hops are going to shine in more of an American version. I love, love love, Maris Otter, but I'm not sure I would want to use it in an IPA or APA. I am toying with the idea of a 2-row/Pilsner mix, juicy IPA/Pale Ale after I make my ESB. I have some ideas if anyone wants to toy around with a collab.

 

[Sandy Feet]

Another idea, when I am looking for ideas on hops styles, etc., I play around with Mean Brews videos on You Tube. Dude takes award winning recipes and makes a recipe somewhere down the middle of them. It is great for learning.

 

[Ward Chillington]

Malt Miller (UK) are pretty good for hop freshness

I think your senses say otherwise.....do you have an option for another supplier?

 

[Sunfire96]

One time I made a very hop forward beer: all hops in at either whirlpool or dry hop. It tasted like orange juice out of the fermenter, so flavorful and aromatic. And then I bungled bottling it, splashed in the bottling bucket and used swing top bottles that didn't seal all the way. When I drank the conditioned beer it had lost all of the hop flavor and aroma. Oxygen can absolutely kill the flavors of a hoppy beer.

Eventually I started bottling from the fermenter which helped a lot. Now I do closed transfers that elimate any oxygen touching the finished beer. They taste much better these days.

Also my favorite commercial IPA is made with 95% Maris Otter and 5% crystal malt. MO makes a great IPA, especially a West Coast IPA

 

[Sandy Feet]

Is that something that I might be able to find in Florida? If so, I would love to give it a try. I never thought of Maris Otter in an APA/IPA, but I am still learning as I go. Everything changes so much and there so are many styles now. Hell, they are doing hops in the mash now with certain yeast strains.
I always thought if you wanted to "make hops sing" you would have to use a light malt that would let it sing: American Pale or Pilsner. Hell, I am up for any lesson though Especially if it concerns learning about beer.

 

[Sunfire96]

Is that something that I might be able to find in Florida? If so, I would love to give it a try. I never thought of Maris Otter in an APA/IPA, but I am still learning as I go. Everything changes so much and there so are many styles now. Hell, they are doing hops in the mash now with certain yeast strains.
I always thought if you wanted to "make hops sing" you would have to use a light malt that would let it sing: American Pale or Pilsner. Hell, I am up for any lesson though Especially if it concerns learning about beer.

I don't think they distribute to Florida, but if you're ever in Virginia look for Pocahoptas IPA by Center of the Universe Brewing