A while back I had one of Stone's Stochaschisity (sp?) beers, a blonde stout. i kid you not, that thing was blonder than most blondes ive seen and as roasty as any stout i've had. in fact, a friend was over brewing with me when we had it. he doesn't like dark or hoppy beers (basically anything not MBC-like), but he liked this. kinda goes to show that people go a bit by visuals alone on choosing or not choosing a beer. anyway, i forget what it listed as the ingredients, but I believe it really did use some coffee. my question is, i would think some color would come through no matter how much coffee you use or how concentrated. some of that color would darken the beer any thoughts on how they did this? i'd assume any dark malt in the mash is out of the question too.