Hopstand vs. Dry-hopping?

[richbon]

I made a hoppier amber ale in September where I used a significant (for me) amount of hops (about 1.5 ounces) added to the kettle while cooling the batch. I added the hop stand charge at 160F and then cooled it to transfer temps (for me 80F) over about 30 minutes with an immersion cooler running tap water. I'm thrilled with how the beer turned out. It has a nice level of hop aroma that I thought would have required dry hopping to reach.

So my question for you hop heads is what are the advantages of dry hoping verses hop stand/whirlpool? I feel like if I can get this much flavor from the whirlpool/hopstand I may not need to dry hop ever. It was hoppy enough to me that if someone said it was an IPA, I wouldn't have disagreed.

 

[Craigerrr]

In a hopstand/whirlpool you will get some bitterness, some aroma, and some flavor.
How much of each depends on the temperature and the time. The higher the temperature the more bitterness you will get, the longer the time the more flavor and aroma you will get.

In a dry hop you will get mostly aroma, some flavor, and no bitterness.

 

[Dave Y]

I feel like if I can get this much flavor from the whirlpool/hopstand I may not need to dry hop ever

@Craigerrr said it rather well. A well dry hopped beer will have much more aroma. There are many online sources that cover dry hopping, biotransformation, when to add them for maximum impact and so on.

In all seriousness though, if big hoppy beers aren't your jam, your position is understandable. I'm more of a 'malt-head' than a 'hop-head' but I do want to one day nail a great IPA. I've had some very good ones, and I'm still at it.

 

[Craigerrr]

On the dry hopping subject, I have found that hopping early, like during fermentation does not give me the aromas that some suggest. I get the best results (most aroma) adding dry hops at or very near the end of fermentation. The amount of aroma you get will depend on how much you add to a point.

 

[richbon]

Burn The Witch! LOL!

I'll have to experiment with dry hopping at some point. I have been a malty guy in terms of the beer I make, but I love hop forward also - I just generally buy those because I thought it would be too hard to do. I'll think my system is probably a little more likely to extract more from the hop stand/whilrlpool since I add a lot of trub in the fermenter. I'm using a Catalyst with a big 32 ounce jug and leaving that on through fermentation.

 

[Minbari]

Over other things to consider with dry hoping is hop creep. Dry hopping will kick start fermentation again. So make sure your FG is stable before bottling

 

[dmtaylor]

CO2 from fermentation can scrub some of the aromas out of whirlpool hopping, whereas dry hopping can be used to restore these scrubbed aromatics. So, at least hypothetically, in a blind tasting, I would expect to likely be able to taste a difference, even if very slight.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I use both. I find that the stand can provide a lot of hop aroma, flavor and bitterness. Dry hopping just reinforces the hop aroma and flavor. I have a beer on tap with a ton of aroma, no dry hopping. I tend to drop a boat load of hops in the whirlpool, 8-16 ounces. It’s a lot of hops, but it makes an awesome beer.

 

[Craigerrr]

I use both. I find that the stand can provide a lot of hop aroma, flavor and bitterness. Dry hopping just reinforces the hop aroma and flavor. I have a beer on tap with a ton of aroma, no dry hopping. I tend to drop a boat load of hops in the whirlpool, 8-16 ounces. It’s a lot of hops, but it makes an awesome beer.

We sir, are on the same page!

 

[Craigerrr]

CO2 from fermentation can scrub some of the aromas out of whirlpool hopping, whereas dry hopping can be used to restore these scrubbed aromatics. So, at least hypothetically, in a blind tasting, I would expect to likely be able to taste a difference, even if very slight.

...and let's remember the affect that aromas in general have on flavor. The two senses are very closely linked

 

[J A]

@Dave Y mentioned several methods of which biotransformation is often overlooked or under-rated. I like whirlpool(hopstand) for extra flavor and a shot of easy-drinking bitterness and the dry hopping will add some aroma but bio-trans hopping can do things that neither of those things quite do. Something happens with the metabolic interactions that really makes some hops jump. The flavor is definitely enhanced more than just dry-hopping and the aroma is better than whirlpool alone.
I'm eager to try a split-batch IPA and try only bio-trans in one batch and only whirlpool in another.

 

[Sandy Feet]

If you are lazy like me and dump the things in, invest in a floating dip dupe if you keg. I learned the hard way with a big flameout addition and a fairly small dryhop.

 

[J A]

If you are lazy like me and dump the things in, invest in a floating dip dupe if you keg. I learned the hard way with a big flameout addition and a fairly small dryhop.

I've been using these hop strainer filters and they help immensely. I transfer from my unitanks under presser through a ball-lock fitting and hops would clog things up badly if I dry hopped. Also very handy for hopping directly in the keg.

 

[Bigbre04]

be really careful letting the temp drop that low without an airlock, you are def in infection territory not to mention DMS as well.

I do all of the above as far as whirlpool and dryhop. I pitch my whirlpool additions at 185 and frequently add 0 min hops as well. the beer im brewing today will be dryhopped tomorrow morning at roughly 70% attenuation and will generally drop down to about 81-83% attenuation. Voss for the win on juicy ipas. ill this beer will be on draft in 6 days from today.

 

[Daniel Parshley]

@Dave Y mentioned several methods of which biotransformation is often overlooked or under-rated. I like whirlpool(hopstand) for extra flavor and a shot of easy-drinking bitterness and the dry hopping will add some aroma but bio-trans hopping can do things that neither of those things quite do. Something happens with the metabolic interactions that really makes some hops jump. The flavor is definitely enhanced more than just dry-hopping and the aroma is better than whirlpool alone.
I'm eager to try a split-batch IPA and try only bio-trans in one batch and only whirlpool in another.

After adding .5 oz for 60 minute and 20 minute additions, I threw in another oz of Cascade in a bag at shutoff and put it in to ferment for the duration. The batch was cooled rather quickly and Safale 05 pitched at 73 degrees. I've had a hankerin' for a Cascade Pale Ale and I think this will take care that itch over the holidays.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I was on one of the Zoom meeting and on some posts concerning a NE Style Pale Ale/IPA. Craig and some others were telling me how many hops to use, and it was MUCH higher that I would have even though about.
I'll put it this way: I used 6oz of hops, and that was considered moderate. Having said that, they were ALL late addition, flameout and dryhop. I used only Cascade and Mosaic with a White Labs NEIPA yeast. It was f ing good.
I don't think Craig uses anything in the boil. Everything is at the end. If you want to get crazy with that Cascade, try a bunch toward the end and at flameout. Use something where you won't clog the keg.

 

[Dave Y]

I was on one of the Zoom meeting and on some posts concerning a NE Style Pale Ale/IPA. Craig and some others were telling me how many hops to use, and it was MUCH higher that I would have even though about.
I'll put it this way: I used 6oz of hops, and that was considered moderate. Having said that, they were ALL late addition, flameout and dryhop. I used only Cascade and Mosaic with a White Labs NEIPA yeast. It was f ing good.
I don't think Craig uses anything in the boil. Everything is at the end. If you want to get crazy with that Cascade, try a bunch toward the end and at flameout. Use something where you won't clog the keg.

Yeah, I need to get over my angst about no boil / 60 minute hop. Maybe next time out I'll go that route.

 

[Minbari]

I've been using these hop strainer filters and they help immensely. I transfer from my unitanks under presser through a ball-lock fitting and hops would clog things up badly if I dry hopped. Also very handy for hopping directly in the keg.
View attachment 33194

I have a few of those. Work great

 

[Donoroto]

I was on one of the Zoom meeting and on some posts concerning a NE Style Pale Ale/IPA. Craig and some others were telling me how many hops to use, and it was MUCH higher that I would have even though about.
I'll put it this way: I used 6oz of hops, and that was considered moderate. Having said that, they were ALL late addition, flameout and dryhop. I used only Cascade and Mosaic with a White Labs NEIPA yeast. It was f ing good.
I don't think Craig uses anything in the boil. Everything is at the end. If you want to get crazy with that Cascade, try a bunch toward the end and at flameout. Use something where you won't clog the keg.

Yeah, well, Craig is a fan of hops…

 

[Sandy Feet]

It did work, and it taught me a few things