Hop Scheduling

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by CausticWolf, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. CausticWolf

    CausticWolf Member

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    Alright, so I understand the basics of building a hop schedule, how to use certain hops to bitter and certain hops to provide the flavour, what I'm struggling with, is to create new hop schedules with the appropriate back story as to exactly as to how the hop schedule works.

    I've been using the same hop schedule from the very first IPA recipe I brewed. It works pretty well, I just like to do my own thing and not be stuck in one thing for too long.

    Does anyone have a certain Hop Schedule formula?
     
  2. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Could you post that recipe?
    Maybe also think about what you want to be different. Do you want more bitterness, more flavor, or more aroma? Are you wanting to make a different style of beer?Every recipe and style of beer have different hop schedules.
     
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  3. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I think of it as layering flavours.

    Assuming a 60 minute boil, hops added at the start will have their volatile compounds (generally the ones with the fruity/floral flavours) driven off by the boil. That will leave you with the isomerised alpha acids and the less volatile compounds. Terms like herbal and dank get used often to describe the flavours these compounds contribute. This depends on the hop, some will contribute very little flavour wise and come across as clean, others will leave some flavour. Whatever hop, though, at 60 minutes or more the contribution is pretty subtle.

    Going to the other end of the hot side, post boil additions will give you more of the volatile compounds in your wort. Even within the post boil additions you can fiddle with the wort temperature and length of hopping to favour the volatile compounds versus the less volatile compounds. Add the hops as soon as you turn off the heat and you're still going to drive off a fair percentage of those volatiles. Turn off the heat and drop the temperature to 80C or a bit lower before you add the hops and you're not going to drive off as much.

    Then going backwards from the post boil additions to the other boil additions people use they will contribute more of the various compounds in the hops the closer they are to the end of the boil. And the closer to the end of the boil, the more they favour those more volatile compounds.

    Then on the dry hop side it happens all again. Temperature and time can be used here to capture more or less of the various compounds, depending on what you want. Longer dry hops give more opportunity for the less volatile compounds to dissolve into the beer and the volatile compounds to be expelled by fermentation. Lower temperatures don't seem to affect the dissolution of the volatile compounds, but slow down the less volatile compounds. So if you wanted to favour the newer hops with the fruit notes you'd do a shorter hop at lower temperatures. But if you wanted a mouth puckering dank bomb you'd not worry about the temperature and dry hop for longer.

    And all of this also depends on the particular hop. Some will be close to useless at one or two points in all the possible hopping points. I find a lot don't contribute much to the post boil hot side additions, while others really shine through there. Some will contribute quite a bit when added early in the boil and next to nothing in a dry hop. That's just experience, or asking others, or reading the increasing number of blogs looking at the chemistry of hops - http://scottjanish.com/survivables-unpacking-hot-side-hop-flavor/.

    That's not to say that the current trend of adding a clean bitter hop at the start of the boil, or nothing during the boil, then loading up with post boil and dry hops additions is the only way forward. It's just the current fashion. Fashion changes and I'm sure it's not far away when we all get overexposed to the same way of hopping beers and look for something new or swing back to the West Coast approaches. So, for me, it's a matter of working out what I want for the beer.

    So for two examples...

    I love a crushable, blonde 4% ABV hoppy ale. For those I follow the current trend, a tiny bit of Magnum at 60 minutes, a bunch of the latest generation hops post boil at 80C and then a decent dry hop. Then for variety I play around with yeasts, cali ale, saison and I've got plans for playing with brett as the primary.

    I also love a black IPA (I noticed they had a revival down here this winter, there were nearly a dozen different breweries doing them). For those I add something at 60 minutes, something at 30, something at 10 and then a dry hop. I just find a lot of the post boil hot side hop flavours are overwhelmed by my grist (my black IPA must have some roast flavour, screw the style guide). So I skip them.

    So if you've got a hop flavour profile you're going for we can all chip in and see if we can confuse you.
     
  4. CausticWolf

    CausticWolf Member

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    Yeah, I was talking to one of the brewers at Batch, theyre here in Sydney, you might have seen them around, he said the trend is 100% opposite of the old school way. Everyone likes to use almost no boil hops, sometimes even none, and then bomb the beer with dry hopping.

    Me, personally, I prefer as you said, the dank bomb. I'd say I need 50 IBU's minimum. I made a very bitter version of the Pirate Life Strata Amarillo Clone I make, and I thought it was great. Not as good as the original, but great to me.

    I feel the main IPA market wants a low IBU beer that is super fruity.

    Thanks heaps for the explanation, hops can be quite complicated with timings. I'm learning grain builds can be just as complicated.
     
  5. CausticWolf

    CausticWolf Member

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    I can post it tomorrow when I'm home. Out at the moment, will do!

    And I have a few various types I make or want to make. My profile has all of my recipes!
     
  6. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Brulosophys current 60 vs 30min hop addition exbeeriment might tickle your Fancies too there @CausticWolf .http://brulosophy.com/2020/09/28/bi...tle-addition-in-festbier-exbeeriment-results/

    I pretty much do as Mark was on about for a hoppy beer smidgen of magnum FWH then Whirlpool 80c half hour but let temp drop usually its low 70's by half hour. Then its usually just the other side of high krausen or at high krausen. I've not experimented with dry hopping cold much but keen to dig my teeth into that
     
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  7. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy the batch beers. We used to see a few down here, especially their milk stout. Haven't noticed them in a little while. May just be covid.

    There's just so many options with the the hoppy beers. I know I'll never get to all of them and if I experiment endlessly I'll never rebrew something I like, so I try to control myself and only use a few different approaches.
     
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  8. CausticWolf

    CausticWolf Member

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    So to finally answer @Craigerrr (Sorry for the late reply!)

    The schedule the HomeBrew store uses is

    60 min- 23g Chinook
    20 min- 20g Cascade
    15 min- 20g Chinook
    5 min- 20g Cascade
    0 min (Flameout)- 20g Cascade

    40g Day 3 dry hop Cascade

    So I basically follow this in my recipes. Bitter hop, aroma hop, bitter hop, aroma to the finish.

    I'm trying to figure things out more and more, and I've had some really good beers, and some really bad ones. The Mosaic I made to honor my Uncle is 100% the best beer I've ever made, and tastes eerily close to Akasha's Mosaic. Absolutely Delightful!
     
  9. Bulin's Milker Bucket Brews

    Bulin's Milker Bucket Brews Well-Known Member

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    I like to keep it simple, I like a nice base bitterness(almost always use Cluster) at 60 minutes.

    Flavor/aroma additions I make between 15 and 5 minutes(depending on how much aroma I'm after). I generally don't do whirlpool hops and only dry how if I'm doing IPA(generally not what I brew, but once in a while...)
     
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  10. CausticWolf

    CausticWolf Member

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    Yeah, I dry hopped big the last batch I made. I only make IPAs really, they have such a short turn around. Anyways, the dry hops (100g) gave the beer too many particles in the beer, and the overall aroma I gained, I'm not sure if it's worth it. Maybe, in the future, when I have more equipment, and better equipment, I'll dry hop 250g plus. But for now, I'm gonna go back to what I was doing before, 40-60g.
     

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