Help with my allgrain setup + is it even worth switching?

[Brewer #480764]

Hi!
in short, i have been making kit beer for the last 4-5 years now and i have started to feel like kits are limiting me too much, i cant find the exact taste im looking for etc.
Last week in a second hand bookshop i found Home brew beer, make your own beer, 100+ recipes by greg hugnes.
I love the recipes here but as you can imagine i cant replicate them when limited by kits.

I have started looking into methods to switch into all grain but the budget is a big problem.
Im from Turkey, although we have some homebrew shops they are very rare and their inventory is very expensive and limited. as far as all grain they dont even sell kettles, you can only buy whole brewzilla kits with a min price of 1000$ + tax which is a problem when i have a budget of less than 100$. with this post im hoping for opinions and advice regarding what i can do,
Right now i have my fermenting supplies i used for kit beer, we run a chiller workshop as family business so i can make myself a small immersion chiller from the scrap and second hand parts for free, i have a fridge in the office as well. Im thinking about hooking it up to a thermometer to use as a cool room for lagering. The problem is the kettle.
I am doing 25 liter batches so around 6 gallons, even for biab i have been told i need atleast a pot that is 40-50 liters, i have been searching for second hand ones but even they are a little bit out of my price range.
One good option i found was an industrial milk jug, stainless steel and 40 liters but the problem is the lid is only 20 cms, would that be a problem for the bag? im thinking about getting it and putting in a tap. I found some cheap immersion heaters so ill use electricity for heat as well. Another question i have is regarding sterilization.
how do i sterilize the cooling coils? do i put them in and then boil the wort? or should i spray and wipe it with starsan?

the second part of this post is: Is it worth the switch?
Right now the price of malts here makes it so the price is equal with kits and extracts. is the change in taste worth the equipment i have to purchase? i found a website thats even selling premade worhs for just a tiny bit expensiver. All grain is going to make my brew day significantly longer and expensiver but will the taste improve as well?

I would apprechiate suggestions and ideas, especially diy ones are very welcome

 

[Brew Cat]

Hi!
in short, i have been making kit beer for the last 4-5 years now and i have started to feel like kits are limiting me too much, i cant find the exact taste im looking for etc.
Last week in a second hand bookshop i found Home brew beer, make your own beer, 100+ recipes by greg hugnes.
I love the recipes here but as you can imagine i cant replicate them when limited by kits.

I have started looking into methods to switch into all grain but the budget is a big problem.
Im from Turkey, although we have some homebrew shops they are very rare and their inventory is very expensive and limited. as far as all grain they dont even sell kettles, you can only buy whole brewzilla kits with a min price of 1000$ + tax which is a problem when i have a budget of less than 100$. with this post im hoping for opinions and advice regarding what i can do,
Right now i have my fermenting supplies i used for kit beer, we run a chiller workshop as family business so i can make myself a small immersion chiller from the scrap and second hand parts for free, i have a fridge in the office as well. Im thinking about hooking it up to a thermometer to use as a cool room for lagering. The problem is the kettle.
I am doing 25 liter batches so around 6 gallons, even for biab i have been told i need atleast a pot that is 40-50 liters, i have been searching for second hand ones but even they are a little bit out of my price range.
One good option i found was an industrial milk jug, stainless steel and 40 liters but the problem is the lid is only 20 cms, would that be a problem for the bag? im thinking about getting it and putting in a tap. I found some cheap immersion heaters so ill use electricity for heat as well. Another question i have is regarding sterilization.
how do i sterilize the cooling coils? do i put them in and then boil the wort? or should i spray and wipe it with starsan?

the second part of this post is: Is it worth the switch?
Right now the price of malts here makes it so the price is equal with kits and extracts. is the change in taste worth the equipment i have to purchase? i found a website thats even selling premade worhs for just a tiny bit expensiver. All grain is going to make my brew day significantly longer and expensiver but will the taste improve as well?

I would apprechiate suggestions and ideas, especially diy ones are very welcome

First off you can make good beers from extract but that would probably require a mini mash anyway
I would cut off the top of the milk can below the taper and use that for a BIAB kettle
As far as ingredients if you can buy kits you can buy all grain kits cheaper than extract kits

 

[Mont Y. Märzen]

Hi!
in short, i have been making kit beer for the last 4-5 years now and i have started to feel like kits are limiting me too much, i cant find the exact taste im looking for etc.
Last week in a second hand bookshop i found Home brew beer, make your own beer, 100+ recipes by greg hugnes.
I love the recipes here but as you can imagine i cant replicate them when limited by kits.

I have started looking into methods to switch into all grain but the budget is a big problem.
Im from Turkey, although we have some homebrew shops they are very rare and their inventory is very expensive and limited. as far as all grain they dont even sell kettles, you can only buy whole brewzilla kits with a min price of 1000$ + tax which is a problem when i have a budget of less than 100$. with this post im hoping for opinions and advice regarding what i can do,
Right now i have my fermenting supplies i used for kit beer, we run a chiller workshop as family business so i can make myself a small immersion chiller from the scrap and second hand parts for free, i have a fridge in the office as well. Im thinking about hooking it up to a thermometer to use as a cool room for lagering. The problem is the kettle.
I am doing 25 liter batches so around 6 gallons, even for biab i have been told i need atleast a pot that is 40-50 liters, i have been searching for second hand ones but even they are a little bit out of my price range.

For full-volume brewing you need about twice the final packaged volume for kettle size. A little extra doesn't hurt or you might fight boil-overs during the hot break.

You could instead design your recipes with a stronger ABV and smaller volume intending to dilute them going into the fermenter. I've seen where some brewers do this and pre-chill that dilution water in their fermenter. They do the math for how much that will further cool their wort and factor that in. It can allow you to reach proper pitching temp faster, especially if your ground water is temperature is too high.

One good option i found was an industrial milk jug, stainless steel and 40 liters but the problem is the lid is only 20 cms, would that be a problem for the bag?

I only use my lid when storing the kettle. But I also recirculate and maintain heat via Propane. (can be done with electric as well) There are bags designed with a taper near the top for use in converted Kegs (Keggles instead of Kettles) which have their tops cut out larger. If you have access to machine tools, you could do something similar with the milk jug.

I'm not sure if you can get this in Turkey, but it will give you an idea of what I'm talking about. You might be able to get the material and fabricate it yourself:

https://www.brewinabag.com/products/the-brew-bag-for-keggles

If you cut the top off the jug entirely, then you don't need the taper at all.

A substitute lid might work too in any case.

im thinking about getting it and putting in a tap. I found some cheap immersion heaters so ill use electricity for heat as well. Another question i have is regarding sterilization.
how do i sterilize the cooling coils? do i put them in and then boil the wort? or should i spray and wipe it with starsan?

The usual recommendation is to put the coil in with at least 15–20 minutes left in the boil to sanitize and be sure to hose them down well as part of your cleaning procedure when finished.

A friend of mine has one but just sprays with sanitizer instead because he finds it interferes with his hop basket.

the second part of this post is: Is it worth the switch?
Right now the price of malts here makes it so the price is equal with kits and extracts. is the change in taste worth the equipment i have to purchase? i found a website thats even selling premade worhs for just a tiny bit expensiver. All grain is going to make my brew day significantly longer and expensiver but will the taste improve as well?

I would apprechiate suggestions and ideas, especially diy ones are very welcome

You can indeed make great beer with extract by employing steeping grain steps. But you will gain complete control by switching to all-grain.

You don't need to spend a pile of money up front. Building out slowly is also part of the fun. That is also how you get creative using what you have available to achieve various results or solve problems. Probably all brewing equipment you find for sale was at one point designed by someone trying to solve a problem on a budget with what they could scrape together.

I switched from stove-top extract with partial steeps to outside all-grain BIAB using Propane and I'll never go back. Yes, the brew days are longer, but also more interesting and fun. (especially if you have friends to brew with) Brew days for us are a gathering event, complete with BBQ and trying beers. (hint: we wait until the boil starts to start drinking or the beer turns out to be a disaster!)

I have friends who now use all-in-one expensive electric systems that started out on cobbled together DIY equipment. They all like them, but all recognize none of those systems are 'perfect'. Each has strengths and weaknesses.

I'm still on my DIY system (large boil pot I added my own fittings to one at a time) and will likely stay with it. I have plans to add an electric element for windy days that make Propane a challenge keeping a flame. Other than that, I'm happy with what I put together. The beauty of DIY is you aren't buying someone else's design. You create yours from all of the best ideas out there the way you want.

Best of luck!

 

[Donoroto]

Others will also comment; those are all good questions

You can continue to brew kits, but add or subtract from them: add a small amount of some ‘other’ extract(s), or start with hot water (65C) and mash a small amount (1kg?) of crushed grain (in a bag). Then use all or much of the kit to continue.

Or change the hops. Or change the yeast.

You can make many beers by starting with a kit and making relatively small changes.

Yeast has a big influence on the basic beer character. Hops has a big influence on the bitterness and hop flavor.

Think about staying with kits mostly, but changing things with grains or different extracts


About the milk jug: 20 cm is too small, the bag with grain will not come out.

 

[RyNo Brew]

Regarding your question "is it worth the switch?" — for me, the switch was absolutely worth it. I started with kits too, first straight extract, then partial mash, then all‑grain kits. Each step opened things up a bit more and the beer improved right along with it.

Once I moved into full all‑grain, choosing my own grains, hops, and yeast, things really clicked. I mash in a 40‑liter cooler and boil in a 40‑liter kettle on a propane burner, and I fermented in plastic buckets for years before eventually upgrading to stainless. It’s not fancy, but it works, and the beer tastes better to me than anything I ever made from kits.

The brew day is longer, and the equipment costs more up front, but the process is more enjoyable and the final product is worth it. Also, I use a copper immersion chiller and just sanitize it by dunking it in sanitizer before it goes into the wort. Simple and effective.

I still do partial mash stovetop batches in the winter, but all‑grain is where I get the best results and the most control. Totally a personal decision, but from my experience, the jump was worth it.

Cheers!

 

[Craigerrr]

"Is it worth it?" Is a tough question to answer.
Depends on what you want out of the hobby, and how much you are willing to spend. If ingredients are difficult to get and expensive that will have to weigh into your decision.
I only ever did one extract kit,then moved straight into all grain starting with BIAB. I can tell you that I have no regrets, and for me it was absolutely "worth it". Easy for me to say though as equipment and ingredients are readulyavailabke and reasonably priced.
Making great beer is very satisfying for me, the second most enjoyable part for me is the learning.
Whatever you choose to do, make sure you keep it fun!

 

[Brew Cat]

With the price of grain and yeast these days I've been tempted to grab extract kits on sale
I'd have no no problem brewing extract
I would need to learn how but I don't think just because you brew all grain your beer will automatically be good

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

Assuming 25L is what goes into the fermenter, and from that I assume your boil kettle is about 30L (8G). While it's not optimal, I think you can use it for all-grain brewing. Rather than put all your water in the mash, you can mash with some of the water (strike water), and sparge with the rest of the water after the mash is complete. This is basically what I do. I have a batch-sparge all-grain system (not BIAB). I usually brew 11-ish lb (5 kg) of grain and mash with 5 gal (19L) of strike water. After draining that to the boil kettle I sparge with about 4 gal (15L) of sparge water. That gives me about 7.5 gal (29L) in my 10 gal (39L) brew kettle. (I have brewed with with the wort almost to the rim of the kettle but, I don't recommend it ). You would probably want to reduce the batch size a bit to give yourself a bit of a safety margin. My point here is that I think you can try all-grain with the equipment you currently have. Brew a few batches that way to see if you like the results and whether the improvement is worth the expense of new equipment.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

One good option i found was an industrial milk jug, stainless steel and 40 liters but the problem is the lid is only 20 cms, would that be a problem for the bag?

I'd definitely cut the top off. In addition to the difficulty getting the bag through that opening, I think it would be hard to avoid boil overs with a large surface area being reduced to a much smaller opening, thus accelerating the rise of the foam and wort.