Help a Hefe

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by jay3847, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. jay3847

    jay3847 Member

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    I have assembled a recipe for a Hefeweizen and am trying to get good but balanced banana/clove aromas and flavors, haze (not Kristal), and good head retention. I'd love suggestions on simple salt/acid additions based on RO.

    Here's the recipe for 3.25 gallons in the fermenter:
    Start with 4.75 gallons RO Water, 2g Calcium Chloride, 4g Lactic acid to get to 5.2.
    BIAB

    2.75 lbs Weyerman German Pilsner
    2.75 lbs Weyerman German Pale Wheat
    .15 lbs Briess Carapils

    110 degree ferulic rest for 20 minutes
    152 degree conversion for 40 minutes
    Heat to 168 and squeeze.

    Boil 90 minutes
    .4oz Hallertau at 60 minutes

    Chill to 62 degrees and pitch WLP300 yeast from small starter (depending on age of the yeast). NO OXYGEN, just shaking.
    Free rise to 68 after high krausen. Bottle at 2 weeks and target 2.5 volumes (not sure my bottles can handle 3.0).

    Suggestions/changes?
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Salts are the wrong place to look for the results you want. Fermentation temperature determines clove-banana flavor balance. Cold gives clove, warm provides banana and hot gives bubblegum. Start about 60, then let it warm in the latter half to a max of around 68-70 for more banana esters.
     
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  3. KC

    KC Active Member

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    Your recipe design is very good. My only two comments are that 1) you probably don't need carapils, and 2) go from first rest to second rest with a gradual temperature change, not an infusion. That will set up the flavors and head properly.

    hefes can take up to 4 vols if you can handle it. What bottles are you using?
     
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  4. Hogarthe

    Hogarthe Well-Known Member

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    If he is using ro water he will need to add in salts for yeast health. Without running it through any water calculations it seems his proposal is good. Calcium is needed for yeast health.

    I'd agree you probably don't need carapils. 50/50 pils/wheat should be fine. You should have good head retention without the carapils.
    With that size batch you may not need a starter. I would consult the yeast calc if your yeast is old though. If fresh just pitch the tube.
     
  5. jay3847

    jay3847 Member

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    LHBS usually has older yeast, so just shooting for pitch rate of .75.

    This is the first time I’ve done rests, so I’ll be direct heating to warm from 110 to 152.

    Jamil suggested the carapils as an option and I love a hefe with some body rather than crisp.

    I’ll probably use some yeast nutrient near the end of the boil so should I skip the calcium?
     
  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about the flavor profile he mentioned, which has nothing to do with the salts. They are necessary for conversion but will not affect the banana-clove balance.
     
  7. jay3847

    jay3847 Member

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    @Nosybear, my aim on the Calcium was again mouthfeel. Not much, but a little. Digging into water and ph is the coming year's challenge.

    Thank you everyone. I'll post results in a month or so.
     
  8. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    No prob. I was trying to answer what I thought was your question, how to balance clove and banana.
     
  9. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    So if it's mouthfeel from salts favour the calcium chloride over calcium sulphate. I always find myself with crisp/hoppy beers by favouring the calcium sulphate. Need to stop that on quite a few beers.
     
  10. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

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    yes basically calcium chloride is a thicker duller tasting beer if not used with gypsum I try to keep a 3/1 ratio or 1/3 depending on which direction I want to go but I always use both
     
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  11. N0mad

    N0mad Well-Known Member

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    I built a recipe based on this Hefe Weissbier, Bavarian Style Beer Advocate article following the directions and temps to the letter and it turned out amazing...

    My recipe for a 2.8 gallon batch >> Weihenstephaner Clone

    I kegged it we had a large family gathering last week... now it's gone :(
     
  12. Medarius

    Medarius Active Member

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    For good head on beer, I use Vienna . If you want a more hazy or malty feel to your beer using a rest above 154 will give you less fermentable sugars than a 145-150 rest, thereby giving more thickness(can't think of better word) in final beer. Wheat beers can be very different clarity/dryness etc. depending on final rest.

    Might want to think about adding another 10 min or so to 150+ rest to get full conversion. And don't see need for a 90 min boil. 60 should be sufficient.

    I bottle all my weizens to 2.5-3. Which is plenty IMO. If you bottle at 5-6 days ,before fermentation is complete, there should be enough yeast still in suspension for bottle conditioning and will give you that 1-2mm of yeast in each bottle to add back to glass when pouring. Or as I call it the creamy goodness that makes weissbiers taste right.

    I claim no expertise, other than being a year round Hefe brewer/drinker. These just my opinions

    Vienna Weizen
     
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  13. jay3847

    jay3847 Member

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    Interesting, @Medarius. No diacetyl rest? No priming sugar?
     
  14. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

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    Doing it this way without priming sugar would be very reinheitsgebot - similar to using speise. I should give it a try sometime.
     
  15. KC

    KC Active Member

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    If you do, use swingtops to avoid bottle bombs. It's difficult to determine how much farther fermentation will go, and it can easily overcarb a firm capped bottle. Swingtops act as pressure relief when that happens.
     
  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Or use thick-walled bottles, like Belgians or champagne bottles.
     
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  17. Medarius

    Medarius Active Member

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    . I have tried many mash schedules and the 110/133/155f , gives me the flavors and feel i prefer. From my research & brewing I find that a 145 rest makes a more dry beer with higher ABV, than I prefer. Where 155 gives slightly lower ABV (less fermentable sugars) with a more full beer., IMO

    No priming sugar normally, I take approx 1/2 gal of wort out of kettle on brew day for bottling.

    Ditto this, if you use proper weizen bottles, bombs shouldn't be a problem.
     
  18. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Diacetyl rest is optional if you manage your fermentation right. Pitch at or below fermentation temperature, pitch an adequate amount of yeast, make sure you have enough O2 and keep the temperature stable and diacetyl usually isn't a problem. Since I couldn't use the word "never", I still warm my lager fermentations to 65°F for a couple of days both to get rid of any possibility of diacetyl and to dry out the beer as much as possible.
     
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  19. jay3847

    jay3847 Member

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    I kegged the beer about a week ago and am pleased with the results.
    - Appearance is not yellow/orange enough
    - Persistent head at 3.0 volumes
    - Right after crash carb, strongish green apple, but that eased after a few days.
    - Now the banana dominates with malty after taste
    - Not much clove even though I did the ferulic rest.
    - With yeast in suspension (but not crazy), there is good body to the beer

    Very pleased. I'll do something to add a bit more color to the beer since the pale straw isn't the best. Will bottle next time too.
     
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  20. White Haus Brews

    White Haus Brews Active Member

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    Sounds like a great first version! I just bottled a dunkle 3 days ago and have my fingers crossed!
     

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