Haze Stability in a Hefe

[Bigbre04]

Hey yall,

I am thinking about brewing a Hefe eventually. My hang up has generally been that wits and hefes are amazing when they are fresh, but after they sit around for a few weeks they drop to clear.

Any thoughts on how to increase the haze without having to shake the damn keg every morning? I will work up a basic hefe recipe.

I was looking at getting a block of hefe yeast from Apex.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

Hey yall,

I am thinking about brewing a Hefe eventually. My hang up has generally been that wits and hefes are amazing when they are fresh, but after they sit around for a few weeks they drop to clear.

Any thoughts on how to increase the haze without having to shake the damn keg every morning? I will work up a basic hefe recipe.

I was looking at getting a block of hefe yeast from Apex.

are you using finning's

 

[Bigbre04]

are you using finning's

Nope no finings. just gravity and time.

 

[Bigbre04]

This is what i just whipped up.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1601579

The first version i would likely run it without any spices.

i think that i will mash in at 149(my standard temp) to limit the overall variables.

i think that i will need to add the beta glucanase to have a prayer of getting water to flow through this along with lots of ricehulls.

fermentation temp wise i would think that 72 would be a safe bet?(temp range is 61-75 from apex). 80% attenuation seems like a safe number(they call out 78-82%)

thoughts? I am a long way from brewing this as i dont have the ingredients on hand and honestly this is a summer beer. I would want it to move quickly.

 

[Minbari]

Not had that problem. Only done 2, but they stayed hazy.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I still have not done one yet, but I have asked a bunch of questions from a number of brewers. Don is probably a good one to ask, and he did have a recipe posted on here at one time.
From the questions I have asked: Low, you get clove. 68-69ish, you get a balance, and higher, you get banana.
I may be stupid, but I think it would have to be on a long time to drop clear.
Do you need to add flaked stuff to a Hefe brewing with that much wheat? And, I had to do a double take seeing that Pils LMAO.
Some of the Hefes I have tasted at the breweries get sulphury when they are in a hurry, so keep that in mind.

 

[Donoroto]

This is what i just whipped up.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1601579

The first version i would likely run it without any spices.

i think that i will mash in at 149(my standard temp) to limit the overall variables.

i think that i will need to add the beta glucanase to have a prayer of getting water to flow through this along with lots of ricehulls.

fermentation temp wise i would think that 72 would be a safe bet?(temp range is 61-75 from apex). 80% attenuation seems like a safe number(they call out 78-82%)

thoughts? I am a long way from brewing this as i dont have the ingredients on hand and honestly this is a summer beer. I would want it to move quickly.

I would remove the oats and flaked wheat. Use about 45% wheat, 30% light munich and around 13% vienna. You need 2-3% (max) melanoidin, since I know you cant do a decoction. And the remainder rice hulls. It works best at around 5.5%, or a bit lower.

The glucanase might help, but the rice hulls are always spot on. Both?

Even more important is the right yeast, as that’s critical to the style. The Apex Hefe is fine.

MOST CRITICAL is to underpitch or AT MOST proper pitch, as an overpitch will almost completely prevent the phenolics that give a good Hefe its character. I know that over pitching is part of your religion, but you’re gonna have to restrain yourself for this one if you want it to come out great.

Ferment near the warm end of the range, like 68, and raise it 4-6F on day 3, it’ll be ready for kegging in 6-7 days.

Can you do a step mash? If so, 105 for 25, 145 for 30, and 158 (!) for 35. If that’s not a thing (makes for a long brew day…), use a single mash at 152-154 to keep enough of the sweetness. 149 will not be your friend.

My references for the style are Franziskaner and Weihenstefaner. Paulaner is much less of a beer.

Since you have time - for me this is also a winter beer! - wait for the right ingredients and your schedule the extra time in the fermenter. And you don’t need spices if you do it properly.

As for yeast clarification: sorry, you have to shake the keg, but only every 2 weeks. Two or three side tilts does it. It will never fully clear, but it is slow enough to drop that it is manageable.

 

[Donoroto]

Pils? Flaked? Spices??

Heathen.

 

[Bigbre04]

Pils? Flaked? Spices??

Heathen.

Hear me out...

what if instead of underpitching it i just say terrible things about hefes and wheat beers in general while making eye contact....atleast 3 times a day???

 

[Bigbre04]

I would remove the oats and flaked wheat. Use about 45% wheat, 30% light munich and around 13% vienna. You need 2-3% (max) melanoidin, since I know you cant do a decoction. And the remainder rice hulls. It works best at around 5.5%, or a bit lower.

I will work up another recipe...

The glucanase might help, but the rice hulls are always spot on. Both?

i have to use lots of ricehulls with beers that dont have adjuncts...the setup of this brewhouse is not great.

Even more important is the right yeast, as that’s critical to the style. The Apex Hefe is fine.

MOST CRITICAL is to underpitch or AT MOST proper pitch, as an overpitch will almost completely prevent the phenolics that give a good Hefe its character. I know that over pitching is part of your religion, but you’re gonna have to restrain yourself for this one if you want it to come out great.

ohhhh you are making me very very itchy. ill find a calculator and figure out a "propper" pitch rate.

Ferment near the warm end of the range, like 68, and raise it 4-6F on day 3, it’ll be ready for kegging in 6-7 days.

So you wouldnt run it at 72? from 72 i could raise it to 74 and be at the top end of the temp range?

Can you do a step mash? If so, 105 for 25, 145 for 30, and 158 (!) for 35. If that’s not a thing (makes for a long brew day…), use a single mash at 152-154 to keep enough of the sweetness. 149 will not be your friend.

technically that is what my stupid brewhouse is designed todo, but the grain tube is very undersized for making anything over 5% at 2bbls

interesting on the 149. i could easily shift it up to 151(i hesitate to go higher then that due to inconsistencies in my mash temps due to the stupid tube) I do my stouts at 151 and they dont make it past 75% attenuation...generally closer to 70.

My references for the style are Franziskaner and Weihenstefaner. Paulaner is much less of a beer.

Since you have time - for me this is also a winter beer! - wait for the right ingredients and your schedule the extra time in the fermenter. And you don’t need spices if you do it properly.

maybe ill run a first batch in January. i have shifted my schedule alot lately. for instance i brew my golden lager basically as soon as i keg off the previous batch. that means that it has lately been getting almost a month of "lagering" before it heads into the cooler to further age. at my current sales that means that i am brewing a double batch(8 kegs) of golden lager every month. obviously winter has spaced that out a bit. but that means that each batch gets almost a month before it gets kegged off and then the kegs sit for a further month while they get drank. so some of them get close to 2 months of lagering time.

this SO FAR has not been too difficult to work around tank scheduling wise.

As for yeast clarification: sorry, you have to shake the keg, but only every 2 weeks. Two or three side tilts does it. It will never fully clear, but it is slow enough to drop that it is manageable.

I just have ptsd from a decade of making an amazing belgian wit(in our tasting room), that would be so sad when i would buy it out in the world after a month or 2 on the market.

also my system sucks ass for adjuncts i had almost phased them out entirely before i started using beta glucanase.

 

[Minbari]

Second the under pitch. I use liquid with no starter and it always gives the nice clovey flavor you want from a hefe. Fermenting slightly under ideal helps this too

 

[Bigbre04]

Second the under pitch. I use liquid with no starter and it always gives the nice clovey flavor you want from a hefe. Fermenting slightly under ideal helps this too

I was reading about hefe yeast and they said to ferment cold if you want spice notes and warmer if you want bananas...to me a hefe should be Runt like, but that is not for everyone. ALSO i dont really drink a lot of traditional hefes.

brewing this today.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1601538

my efficiency has been pretty wonky lately. i think that with the beta glucanase i am getting significantly higher usage of adjuncts but also my beloved 2R has been giving me alot more sugar then before. I have noticed that pils is not following the same trend which is interesting.

 

[Minbari]

I was reading about hefe yeast and they said to ferment cold if you want spice notes and warmer if you want bananas...to me a hefe should be Runt like, but that is not for everyone. ALSO i dont really drink a lot of traditional hefes.

brewing this today.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1601538

my efficiency has been pretty wonky lately. i think that with the beta glucanase i am getting significantly higher usage of adjuncts but also my beloved 2R has been giving me alot more sugar then before. I have noticed that pils is not following the same trend which is interesting.

Ya, my stupid phone didn't write everything. I meant ferment slightly under ideal temp.

I did one at 75F. Was a banana bomb

 

[Sandy Feet]

It seems like I think about this style each time we have the Zoom meeting, and I still haven't done it. Just to get my curiosity going again, I was playing online.
I did see multiple items as simple as a 50/50 Pils/Wheat recipe, BIAB, single infusion, 152 mash temp using WLP 300 and noble hops. Is there any reason to complicate it more than that?
This is just for learning purposes for myself. The more I think about it, the more I want to do it..Just like the Alt I made this year, and I very much liked that beer. I asked a bunch of questions with that beer as well.
If I do it, it will probably be spring or summer when it is nice and warm in the garage fridge and I don't have to worry about a January cold front. I'm thinking of fermenting around 69 to start.
And, red not white wheat?

 

[Bigbre04]

It seems like I think about this style each time we have the Zoom meeting, and I still haven't done it. Just to get my curiosity going again, I was playing online.
I did see multiple items as simple as a 50/50 Pils/Wheat recipe, BIAB, single infusion, 152 mash temp using WLP 300 and noble hops. Is there any reason to complicate it more than that?
This is just for learning purposes for myself. The more I think about it, the more I want to do it..Just like the Alt I made this year, and I very much liked that beer. I asked a bunch of questions with that beer as well.
If I do it, it will probably be spring or summer when it is nice and warm in the garage fridge and I don't have to worry about a January cold front. I'm thinking of fermenting around 69 to start.
And, red not white wheat?

Shouldnt be a big deal temp wise. if the hefe yeast is anything like wit yeast it is more of a challenge to keep it cool then keeping it warm.

I have used both wheats. i honestly dont think you will be able to tell the difference between them.

 

[Donoroto]

It seems like I think about this style each time we have the Zoom meeting, and I still haven't done it. Just to get my curiosity going again, I was playing online.
I did see multiple items as simple as a 50/50 Pils/Wheat recipe, BIAB, single infusion, 152 mash temp using WLP 300 and noble hops. Is there any reason to complicate it more than that?
This is just for learning purposes for myself. The more I think about it, the more I want to do it..Just like the Alt I made this year, and I very much liked that beer. I asked a bunch of questions with that beer as well.
If I do it, it will probably be spring or summer when it is nice and warm in the garage fridge and I don't have to worry about a January cold front. I'm thinking of fermenting around 69 to start.
And, red not white wheat?

See if you can get some melanoidin, it gives a unique malt flavor key to the style. Just a few ounces, 3% max.

As for wheat, red, white or even blue is fine. Use what you can get.

 

[Donoroto]

I will work up another recipe...

i have to use lots of ricehulls with beers that dont have adjuncts...the setup of this brewhouse is not great.

ohhhh you are making me very very itchy. ill find a calculator and figure out a "propper" pitch rate.


So you wouldnt run it at 72? from 72 i could raise it to 74 and be at the top end of the temp range?

technically that is what my stupid brewhouse is designed todo, but the grain tube is very undersized for making anything over 5% at 2bbls

interesting on the 149. i could easily shift it up to 151(i hesitate to go higher then that due to inconsistencies in my mash temps due to the stupid tube) I do my stouts at 151 and they dont make it past 75% attenuation...generally closer to 70.

maybe ill run a first batch in January. i have shifted my schedule alot lately. for instance i brew my golden lager basically as soon as i keg off the previous batch. that means that it has lately been getting almost a month of "lagering" before it heads into the cooler to further age. at my current sales that means that i am brewing a double batch(8 kegs) of golden lager every month. obviously winter has spaced that out a bit. but that means that each batch gets almost a month before it gets kegged off and then the kegs sit for a further month while they get drank. so some of them get close to 2 months of lagering time.

this SO FAR has not been too difficult to work around tank scheduling wise.

I just have ptsd from a decade of making an amazing belgian wit(in our tasting room), that would be so sad when i would buy it out in the world after a month or 2 on the market.

also my system sucks ass for adjuncts i had almost phased them out entirely before i started using beta glucanase.

A lot to unpack here.

Use both the rice hulls and the glucanase then. Definitely not harmful.

72 might be more bananaey or even bubblegum-ey than you want. Your customers may find that pleasant though. I’d start at 68 and watch it rise in 30 hours past 72 though. Do keep in mind that I ferment inside a fridge, not with glycol, so temp control is not as tight. I don’t think 70 will kill anything.

A 151 mash is fine, if that’s what is doable.

As for timing, the esters fade in 4 months, like an IPA, so time in the keg is not kind to a Hefe.

The occasional sacrifice to the brewing gods will suffice for our purposes here.

TRY to notify me when it goes onto a tap, I’ll drive down and try one. Just under 5 hours.

 

[Donoroto]

Note that my final mash temperature is 158. But that’s the end of a step mash.

 

[Megary]

I did see multiple items as simple as a 50/50 Pils/Wheat recipe, BIAB, single infusion, 152 mash temp using WLP 300 and noble hops. Is there any reason to complicate it more than that?

I really like 3068, but other than that, no. Pretty much my Hefe recipe right there. I may try a bit of melanoidin as per @Donoroto next time though. He would know better than I.

 

[Donoroto]

I really like 3068, but other than that, no. Pretty much my Hefe recipe right there. I may try a bit of melanoidin as per @Donoroto next time though. He would know better than I.

Don’t be so sure.