Harvesting yeast after fining

[Beer_Pirate]

As someone who doesn't normally fine beers with gelatin, I have no idea if this is a stupid question or not... Can you harvest yeast after fining with gelatin? If so, is it as viable as any other re-pitch? I decided this time to add gelatin directly to the keg so that I could harvest from the fermenter, but this kept me from being able to purge the keg of some of the O2 like normal.

 

[Hawkbox]

Yeah go ahead. SHouldn't hurt it.

 

[Nosybear]

As someone who doesn't normally fine beers with gelatin, I have no idea if this is a stupid question or not... Can you harvest yeast after fining with gelatin? If so, is it as viable as any other re-pitch? I decided this time to add gelatin directly to the keg so that I could harvest from the fermenter, but this kept me from being able to purge the keg of some of the O2 like normal.

I wouldn't, just because of the population of yeast cells you'd be harvesting. The more flocculant yeasts would have settled out in primary, leaving only the absolute least flocculant yeast remaining in secondary. Those would be the ones you'd be harvesting. Your attenuation would go up in subsequent generations, you'd likely get off-flavors. Harvesting from the bottom of a primary fermentation or the krauesen of an open fermentation gives you a mix of cells, harvesting from secondary would not.

 

[Hawkbox]

I read that as he's harvesting from the primary after transferring to the keg and wants to know if gelatin will be a problem. I don't get anything about secondaries in his text.

 

[Head First]

As someone who doesn't normally fine beers with gelatin, I have no idea if this is a stupid question or not... Can you harvest yeast after fining with gelatin? If so, is it as viable as any other re-pitch? I decided this time to add gelatin directly to the keg so that I could harvest from the fermenter, but this kept me from being able to purge the keg of some of the O2 like normal.

I have read quite a bit on it and have never read anything saying no don't but nosy has a good point about flocking yeast. I just purge keg, rack beer, and as it is finishing racking dump in the dissolved gelatin. Can't be much o2 in 100ml of boiled, cooled water. I always cold crash in primary so is fairly clean already.

 

[thunderwagn]

I've done it many times after cold crashing and fining with gelatine in the primary. Stay clean, and if you're in doubt, you can revitalize your slurry which should give you a good indication of active yeast.

I also fine with gelatine right in my kegs as I have more room in my fridge for kegs than fermentors. I rack to keg. Purge. Let chill. Add gelatine and purge again. Then set pressure to start carbing.

If you stay clean, yeast are pretty hardy critters.

 

[Nosybear]

I read that as he's harvesting from the primary after transferring to the keg and wants to know if gelatin will be a problem. I don't get anything about secondaries in his text.

I never thought of priming in primary - the only fining process I know is rack the beer, chill it to as near 0 C as possible, make up the gelatin solution, add, agitate and wait. Rev 1 to answer: It'll work. You'll get some protein boogers but they're no big deal.

 

[Hawkbox]

I do that basic process but I don't rack off the primary first.

 

[Beer_Pirate]

Just to clarify, I was talking about fining in primary (I don't secondary unless it's a really big beer) and reusing the yeast cake that has gelatin in the mix now. I didn't know if this would lead to a stuck fermentation as a result of the gelatin keeping the yeast (mostly) out of suspension.

 

[Nosybear]

I can think of some potential problems with using the yeast after gelatin fining but I don't know of anything certain. Fining in primary is a new thing to me and I don't harvest yeast.

 

[JimFisher]

I've done that a few times and never thought to wonder if gelatin has any sort of effect. I guess it doesn't because it has worked for me!

That said, I've pretty much stopped harvesting. It's much easier to simply make a larger starter and save some of that starter for your next batch. For an ale, I make a 2-liter starter, transfer 1 liter to a Bell jar, and use the other liter.

Leave the Bell jar in the refrigerator until the yeast settles, then decant the beer and replace it with sterile water.

 

[Beer_Pirate]

I've done that a few times and never thought to wonder if gelatin has any sort of effect. I guess it doesn't because it has worked for me!

That said, I've pretty much stopped harvesting. It's much easier to simply make a larger starter and save some of that starter for your next batch. For an ale, I make a 2-liter starter, transfer 1 liter to a Bell jar, and use the other liter.

Leave the Bell jar in the refrigerator until the yeast settles, then decant the beer and replace it with sterile water.

I don't generally use starters or I'd overbuild like that. I just pour what's left in the carboy after kegging into a sanitized 2 liter jar and label it. I don't worry about replacing it with sterile water because that'll just make the yeast burn through their glycogen stores faster (and then lyse) from all I've read.

 

[Hawkbox]

I just leave the beer on the yeast after pour some starter off and it's worked well for over a year now.

 

[Nosybear]

I don't harvest yeast but most of what I read says the yeast is most stable under the beer it made.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

I wouldn't, just because of the population of yeast cells you'd be harvesting. The more flocculant yeasts would have settled out in primary, leaving only the absolute least flocculant yeast remaining in secondary. Those would be the ones you'd be harvesting. Your attenuation would go up in subsequent generations, you'd likely get off-flavors. Harvesting from the bottom of a primary fermentation or the krauesen of an open fermentation gives you a mix of cells, harvesting from secondary would not.

I sort of disagree.
There are many of factors that go into what you have in a secondary.
The main one being when you actually go into it.
If i'm harvesting yeast from a secondary, i'll move the beer there around day 4, based on 1st sign of krausen drop or a percentage of completion, based on the strain of yeast.
This way i'm transferring off Trub and a great selection of yeast are still very active and in suspension.
After fermentation is complete, I have very clean yeast under beer that can be harvested.
As far as Gelatin is concerned, if done this way, you'd be fine.
Also, I don't think anyone here is going out 6 or more generations and would see a selection time mutation occur.
Brian

 

[Nosybear]

I sort of disagree.
There are many of factors that go into what you have in a secondary.
The main one being when you actually go into it.
If i'm harvesting yeast from a secondary, i'll move the beer there around day 4, based on 1st sign of krausen drop or a percentage of completion, based on the strain of yeast.
This way i'm transferring off Trub and a great selection of yeast are still very active and in suspension.
After fermentation is complete, I have very clean yeast under beer that can be harvested.
As far as Gelatin is concerned, if done this way, you'd be fine.
Also, I don't think anyone here is going out 6 or more generations and would see a selection time mutation occur.
Brian

 

[Nosybear]

That would work. I was thinking of the more normal procedure, racking once primary is done. Your method still selects for more flocculant yeast but more slowly than the traditional secondary.