Gurgling tap handle

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by jmcnamara, Jul 20, 2016.

  1. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    yet another kegging question. tried to look online, and it just seemed to focus on the regulator to keg line.

    anyway, i've had the keg chilled and carbed (hopefully I think enough) since the weekend. But, when i go to pull the tap, it seems to gurgle a bit coming out. almost like there's something blocking the hole partially. any idea what this is and how to fix it?

    also, bonus question, if i leave the one keg hooked up to the serving line, but remove the co2 to carb another keg, will that slowly leak the first keg? should i unhook everything if i'm doing that?
     
  2. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,767
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    the gargling could just be a full keg but not sure,can you post a picture of how yours is set up
     
  3. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    that thought never occurred to me. any way to fix it other than empty the keg and try again?

    i'll try to post a pic when i get home. haven't had luck taking a pic from my phone and posting. (i think) it says it doesn't support that file type
     
  4. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The posting problem is probably due to file size rather than file type. Try to make the image smaller. On my phone, when I email an image, it'll ask me what file size.
     
  5. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    ok, let's try this. shrunk it to about 88 kb.

    not the best pic, but this is essentially it. this is from when it was carbing, so serving line isn't attached
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,767
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    ok if you move your tank just unhook the white valve from the keg and leave the keg alone, move the tank where ever then hook it back just like before, as for the gurgling you can purge the air out, once the level of beer goes below the gas dip tube it wont gurgle any more
     
  7. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    cool. just a few clarifications

    assuming that the black valve was attached in my photo, leave that where it is when i disconnect the co2? or totally disconnect everything from the keg?

    the gurgling isn't coming from the keg itself, it's from the tap, sorry if i wasn't clear. would that still be a dip tube issue? i can pretty much guarantee that i've drank enough for it to be well below that tube by now :D

    thanks for all the help, really appreciate you guys typing all this out to try to troubleshoot blind
     
  8. artbreu

    artbreu Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I agree sounds like you overfilled.. one problem that can certainly be solved by drinking. :D

    It shouldn't, but to be clear (and I'm sure you know this but I'll say it anyway for anyone else who reads this) you can't serve from that keg while you're not connected to the gas. :? You'll get 2-3 pints out, but you're degassing your beer into the headspace.
     
  9. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    thanks. i used star san for the first time, and all the foam in the keg made it hard to see the level of beer. oh well, try again next time. does it "hurt" the beer that i overfilled it? or it just doesn't work as optimally as it could?

    and no worries for stating the "obvious". my only previous keg experience was doing assisted handstands on it with a picnic tap handle in my mouth, so all of this is pretty new to me.
     
  10. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,767
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri
    do not unhook anything from the regulator or co2 tank, always keep that hose and whatever is attached connected, only unhook the white valve
     
  11. artbreu

    artbreu Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Then it sounds like there is some sort of leak. Like when you drink through a straw but the straw has a hole in it. Hard to troubleshoot that one without physically being there.

    What is your serving pressure? How long is the serving line? Longer line --> more psi.

    If it's a picknic tap you should be fine with about 11-12 psi. You want just enough to put a head on the beer.
     
  12. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    It's about 12 psi or so. Which according to the chart I have, should be good for the style and temp of the beer.
    The serving line is about 3 ft. I did see a formula here about that, I'll have to plug in the numbers.
    Pretty much all the fittings I had to fasten, but maybe I didn't do it good enough. I'll also check the other ones I didn't do.
    I'm thinking it may be the clamp on the tap handle side of the hose

    Oh, and I've got the adult tap handle and all. Haven't used the picnic one since college days 10+ years ago :D
     
  13. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    Ok. Dropped the temp on the fridge to 39 when I got home, was 41. After walking the dog, pulled off a pint and it still did it, but maybe seemed a little less. Also, the pressure is about 15 psi, it changed slightly after being in the fridge for a while.
    The head and carbonation are fairly spot on I think for a bitter, at least to me. Tiny, tight bubbles that stay for a bit.
    Crunched the numbers from the line length formula, and it seems at this psi I'd need about 5.5 ft. However, if I drop it to about 10, then I'd need a bit over three feet, which is where im at now.
    Is that too low of a serving pressure? Wouldn't the beer degas if the keg headspace pressure wasn't enough to keep the co2 in solution?
    If there's not a significant downside to substantially increasing the line length (so I don't have to worry about this later for different beers and co2 volumes), I'll probably just splice some line into the existing one sometime soon

    Also, seemed weird to me that the formula didn't take into account temperature or volumes of co2 already in the beer
     
  14. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think that the CO2 already in the beer has anything to do with it. Temperature and pressure are the 2 variables that determine how much CO2 the beer can hold, regardless of where the CO2 comes from.
     
  15. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    So the carbing pressure is obviously to get it carbed. But the serving pressure is just to maintain an equilibrium (more or less) between the decreasing beer and increasing headspace so the co2 in the beer stays there? Maybe a little more to push it up and out the dip tube.

    So then serving pressure would be less than carbing pressure for the same temp?
    Or am I comparing 2 different things?
     
  16. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you put a flat beer on serving pressure and temperature, it would be properly carbed after a couple of weeks. The higher pressure just speeds the process. If you left it on the higher pressure for a couple weeks, it'd be overcarbed.
     
  17. artbreu

    artbreu Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    The cooler the beer is the more CO2 it will "hold" at a given psi. That's why when you open a warm bottle of soda so much gas is released, because the liquid at that temp will not hold as much CO2. There could be plenty of CO2 being held in suspension, but once it gets a chance it rushes out rapidly... and it foams. Exciting the solution, shaking the bottle, makes this worse (rolling the keg is the same principle only under pressure you're forcing it IN, instead of out). Your keg, assuming it's sealed, works in the same way.

    Force carbonating at higher psi means you are using "excessive" pressure to force the CO2 into solution quicker. That's all. The solution still will only hold so much depending on the temp. But beer will hold WAY more CO2 than you'd ever want it to.. so you can easily overdo it.
     
  18. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,947
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rosedale, MD
    thanks, i think this is all slowly starting to make sense for me

    another question though, how do you know when it's "ready", i.e. carbing is done? For a mash, you can do an iodine test, for gravity a hydrometer reading, but what is there for a keg? just pour a beer and see how it is? trial and error on my part?
     
  19. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,240
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm still in the trial and error phase. It does seem to me that after 2 weeks, it's as carbonated as it's going to get. Just don't let it sit for 2 weeks at the higher pressure. Look at the chart to see what volumes the higher pressure and your temperature could get to.
     
  20. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    7,767
    Likes Received:
    3,976
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Managment
    Location:
    The Ozark Mountains of Missouri

    its all up to the beholder, usually bubbles rising from the bottom for more than 15 seconds is a good indication

    small foamy bubbles racing to the top then stopping, not done and don't :D drink from a force caring tank, that was your problem to start
     

Share This Page

arrow_white