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From Pale Ale to Vienna Lager!?

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by sbaclimber, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    #1 sbaclimber, Feb 25, 2020
    I have a bunch of ingredients, which I would normally use for a Pale Ale (American-ish / IPA-ish style), but after years of only brewing ales, I really want to try a lager of some sort.
    So, I have ordered some Fermantis W-34/70 and threw out all of my dry hop additions (and significantly reduced boil hops) in what would otherwise be an ale recipe...
    upload_2020-2-25_18-22-32.png

    Anyone think this will produce a drinkable "Vienna Lager / Märzen"-ish brew, or is it going to be disgusting?
    I know Mandarina is not a classical lager hop, but I really like it and only haven MB, Magnum or Comet in storage.
     
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  2. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    #2 sbaclimber, Feb 25, 2020
    D'oh, just realized this would've been better under "Recipes for Feedback".
    @Mods, feel free to move! :rolleyes:
     
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  3. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    #3 Nosybear, Feb 25, 2020
    Looks kind of Maerzenish to me, should be good.... The "tangerine" from the Mandarina should put an interesting twist on it!

    For my Lagers, I've switched to MORE of my hops in the boil, and then keeping it to Noble varieties. The hop flavor that survives is different, the more cedar-woody-herbal flavors of a good German Pils or Helles.

    I'm wanting to do a Vienna Lager with only Vienna (a bit of Carafoam and Acidulated) and Styrian Goldings, maybe Hallertau or Saaz. What would you imagine would come of such a recipe?
     
  4. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    #4 HighVoltageMan!, Feb 25, 2020
    That looks good. The Mandarina hops will work, if you wanted more traditional flavor, then use Tettnang or German Tradition (very reliable hops, my favorites for German lagers). But it would be fine with the hops you have. I would suggest lowering the mash temp to 63-64C, it will help with making it a dryer beer. The malt will still come through, but it helps to avoid a sweet finish. If you can, adjust the pH at pitch to 5.1-5.2. It helps the yeast and keeps the finish crisp. Vienna lagers are delicious, maltly without being sweet and completely crushable.
     
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  5. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    #5 sbaclimber, Feb 25, 2020
    Only Vienna will work well for malt. Hallertau as a hop should good too. Saaz may put you more in the Pilsner / Bohemian Lager region...
    Can't say much about Styrian Goldings, not much experience with them.
     
  6. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    #6 sbaclimber, Feb 25, 2020
    Good point about the mash temp! Will try to lower that a bit.
    Mash pH is thankfully not as bad as it looks in the recipe. :)
    My H2O profile is from the "official" municipal water amounts, but don't seem to be exactly what I actually get from the faucet. I played around with aciduated malt and pH strips awhile back and couldn't really get achieve any significant improvement. At least with ale yeast, an attenuation of 70-80% is pretty normal, even without adjusting the pH.
     
  7. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    #7 sbaclimber, Feb 25, 2020
    Just discovered more Ariana in my freezer! :D
    ...think I'll stick with the MB though.
     
  8. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    #8 sbaclimber, Feb 25, 2020
  9. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    #9 HighVoltageMan!, Feb 25, 2020
    Maybe for a Dunkel, but not a Vienna. Most homebrewers make lagers that are to sweet because they mash too high or use crystal malt and the beer isn't attenuated. Vienna Lagers are malty and crushable. Use German malt to avoid the thinness they described in the article. If you want it a "thicker" mash slightly higher, but no higher than 65.5C, IMHO. Either way, if it turns out (I'm sure it will), it won't be your last one you make, it is one of the best of the German beers.
     
  10. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    #10 Trialben, Feb 27, 2020
    I've not brewed a Vienna Lager but heaps of lighter styles and one or two Marzens. I second high voltage man on the mash profile starting low and finishing high will control your body for you. I tend to go 62c - either 66 or straight to dex 70c.
    Nothing worse I recon than a sweet lager better dry than sweet:)
     
  11. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    #11 sbaclimber, Feb 27, 2020
    Definitely agree with you there! I am a bit cagey about "too dry", after achieving that in a pale ale by accident, but a lager should be dry after all...
     
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  12. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    #12 sbaclimber, Mar 27, 2020
    Just mashed-in and hit 64°C! Was kinda aiming for 65-66, but should be good too, if perhaps a bit dry in the end...
     
  13. The Brew Mentor

    The Brew Mentor Well-Known Member

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    #13 The Brew Mentor, Mar 27, 2020
    Good Luck.
    I'm not a fan of the MB, but other than that, it should be fine.
    Brian
     
  14. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    #14 sbaclimber, Mar 30, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
    Brewed and in the fermentation chamber (at this point, just my basement, no cooling necessary) at 9°C, bubbling away! :D
    Having absolutely no experience with bottom fermentation (W34-70)...I assume the slightly (filling the whole basement!) sulfury smell is perfectly normal!? :p
     
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  15. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    #15 Hawkbox, Mar 30, 2020
    Yeah that's normal.
     
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