First Brew more Bitter than expected

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by SimonWHill, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. SimonWHill

    SimonWHill New Member

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    Hi,

    Ive just completed my first Brew, its just gone in the keg to carbonate. but i think i made a few errors, first off i think i miss understood the mash process
    ( THE MASH Temperature °C: 65, Length (mins): 60, Out temp °C: 75, Out time (mins): 10 ),

    I mashed at 75c when i should have mashed at 65c, my starting specific gravity was 1054 when it should have been 1072, it should have been 1014 when done but it was 1012.

    Fermentation seemed to stall in day 3, so i raised the fermentation temp to 21c from 20c and it stalled again the day after so i raised it again to 22c.

    I'm not sure what info you might need but ill put the recipe below. i tasted the wort and the post fermentation liquid and both tasted more bitter than a NEIPA should (in my opinion).

    all and any help advice would be greatly appreciated

    This is the kit i used,

    https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/ne-ipa-jon-finch-recipe/

    This is the recipe

    Description
    This recipe is based on the recipe from Beer Craft by Jon Finch. Due to the rarity of being able to buy Galaxy this hop has been replaced with Cashmere.
    A hazy juicy IPA, with late hop additions.

    Ingredients
    Crisp Pale Ale Malt (5000 grams)
    Crisp Crystal Malt (300 grams)
    Crisp Pale Wheat Malt (300 grams)
    Flaked Oats Including Husk (300 grams)
    Citra Pellets (110 grams)
    Cashmere Pellets (100 grams)
    Mosaic Pellets (80 grams)
    NBS Ale Yeast 12g (1 packs)

    Method
    Beer Style (main): American Ales
    Beer Style (sub): Juicy or Hazy India Pale Ale
    Batch Size: 19ltr
    Original Gravity: 1.072
    Final Gravity: 1.014
    ABV %: 7.4%
    IBU: 30

    THE MASH
    Temperature °C: 65
    Length (mins): 60
    Out temp °C: 75
    Out time (mins): 10

    THE BOIL
    Boil time (mins): 60

    Additions and timing:

    30g Citra – Boil 10 min
    30g Cashmere – Boil 10 min
    40g Citra – Flame Out
    40g Cashmere – Flame Out
    40g Mosaic – Flame Out

    Secondary additions and timing:

    40g Citra – Dry hop for 7 days
    30g Cashmere – Dry hop for 7 days
    40g Mosaic – Dry hop for 7 days

    Yeast: NBS Classic English Ale Yeast
    Fermentation temperature/steps: 20c

    Thanks

    Simon
     
  2. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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    You will get better answers than mine for sure but, for starters:

    Mashing at 75 would likely explain missing OG, can't see why it would add anything to the bitterness.

    Assuming your raising the temp from 21 to 20 is a typo and you went 20 - 21 - 22 that shouldn't cause it either.

    Did you follow the hop schedule accurately? There's not much there that would suggest bitterness to me.

    One thing I would say is that water seems to have a big impact on NEIPA styles so that may well be a factor. NEIPAs seem to be a tricky style to get right. My process personally is a bit 'fluid' ( I forget stuff :) ) and NEIPA seems to demand consistent and accurate processes that are pretty delicate and unforgiving.

    My two cents.
     
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  3. SabreSteve

    SabreSteve Well-Known Member

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    Question: you're adding the 10 minute additions with 10 minutes remaining in the boil not 10 minutes into the boil right? That would actually make a huge difference in bitterness. From what I've heard too a lot of people think Citra in particular are pretty harsh when used really in the boil. I haven't used them to date but planning on doing a SMaSH with them soon. Other than that IDK but like the other Steve said you'll probably get better answers than mine
     
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  4. Sunfire96

    Sunfire96 Well-Known Member

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    Have you checked your water's bicarbonate levels? My water is high in bicarbonates (>150 ppm) and all my brews were too bitter until I changed to RO water (filtered to 0-ish residual solids). Water chemistry is daunting, I know, but it's essential for all grain brewing, unfortunately. Now I only use my tap water for amber-dark beers and I add acid malt to lower the predicted mash pH.

    If you're on city water, you can usually look up/call the city's office for the water quality info. If you're on well water, you'll need to send a sample to get tested for the specific minerals. If you want a very basic idea of what your water looks like, try some test strips either for aquarium water or testing pool water. That will give you the pH, general hardness, and temporary hardness, and give you a better idea of what your mash pH is doing. Good luck!

    Just another thought...it might be helpful to repeat a brew several times to get your system and numbers dialed in. Maybe something around 1.050-1.055 OG with a few grains and hop additions. Simpler is better in the beginning, which I learned the hard way (remind me to tell you about my lemon balm beer sometime....blegh). And repeating the same recipe is the best way to learn what you're doing and how your equipment/process works. But I also remember being given this exact advice from brewers who knew way more than I did, and I just did whatever I wanted and brewed a different recipe every time lol whatever makes you happy, honestly! You're the one drinking the beer :) Cheers!!
     
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  5. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    One thing to note on the bitter taste: BU/GU ratio is almost as important as IBU. So if you have a lower gravity than expected but the same IBU, you’re likely to have a higher perceived bitterness.

    I’ve had Double IPA’s at 80 IBU that tasted less bitter than a straight IPA at 60 IBU. Since the double had a higher gravity, it balanced out the bitterness.
     
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  6. SimonWHill

    SimonWHill New Member

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    Wow thanks for all the feedback and advice,

    I started with RO water (23 litres) PH of the water was 6.84, the PH of the Mash was 5.4, yes a added the first lot of hops with 10 mins left of the boil.


    Ill do this one again and see if I have better results.


    Thanks


    Simon
     
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  7. Donoroto

    Donoroto Member

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    #7 Donoroto, Oct 1, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
    Uncarbonated beer from the fermenter will always have more bitterness than the final beer. The higher mash temperature could have added some astringency, which can amplify bitterness a little, and the warming of the fermentation is actually a good practice (but best done when within maybe 0.005-0.010 of FG). Did you also let the beer rest in the fermenter for a few days after it was 'done'? That allows the yeasts to clean up some off flavors they created while making ethanol.

    As already mentioned, a high sulfate to chloride ratio in your water can make it bitter.

    But the bottom line is, let the beer carbonate, let it rest a couple days, get it cold and THEN taste it. Let us know please!
     
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  8. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    I have only been brewing for roughly 40+ batches, but I have developed a good feel for what the uncarbonated beer will become once carbonated. Experience will be your teacher!
     
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  9. Donoroto

    Donoroto Member

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    Heh. Well, I stand firmly by my status as "Newbie".
     
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  10. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    My curve is still very steep
     
  11. SimonWHill

    SimonWHill New Member

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    i will ill be bottling a week today, so lets see, thank you all so much for you advice and welcome.

    Its nice to feel you can ask questions and that people want to help.

    ill come back to you all once ive tried the first bottle

    cheers
     
  12. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a plan. This site has been a great help to me as well.
     
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  13. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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  14. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    I've found the big thing here is we seem to be less dogmatic about stuff. Here's the recommended path, but try what you want and see if it works.
     
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  15. SimonWHill

    SimonWHill New Member

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    Yes, i agree i use this in my work too, just give it a bash and see what happens, to answer @Donoroto question, no i did not, but that's another tip ill take, I let it sit for maybe 2 days. the other thing I would like to know is i put the hops into a hop basket (stainless steel mesh) during the boil. however they seem to clog up the mesh and little if any wort flow through the mesh. should i ditch them? chose another way to get hops into the boil?

    Thanks

    Simon
     
  16. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you took all the precautions to get your water right for this brew. Honestly I would of whirlpooled below 80c and Dry hopped and done none in the boil.

    But your bitterness should a been right down as Bubba said your low Starting gravity would if affected your perceived bitterness and hops isomerisation is better the lower the gravity so more bitterness would of developed in the mear 10mins + cool down of contact.

    As advised looks like a drink and repeat process in the end:rolleyes:.
     
  17. SimonWHill

    SimonWHill New Member

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    I just fitted a new tap too the keg (never used one before) and the when i opened the tap beer fired out with a massive head and lots of foam.

    the keg is in a fridge at 5c with 14psi being fed into it, its been chilling and carbonating like that for a week.

    is that to be expected ? i only poured 1/4 pint off, just to see how it is.

    i was plesently suprised when I tasted it, the bitterness has massivly reduced, there is not as much flaour as I imagined but its really drink able

    Thanks in advance for any feedback

    Regards

    Simon
     

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  18. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I'd say your serving pressure is a tad high try reducing it to 10psi you'll get a more leisurely pour this way not a fire hydrant pour.
     
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  19. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    What diameter is your serving hose, and how long is it? Also, as Ben says, 14PSI is a bit high for serving. For example, I use 3/16" diameter hose/tubing, 10 feet long, with 10PSI serving pressure This is physics, you don't want 10PSI at the tap, the small tubing, with the long length causes a pressure drip. The other potential factor is the temperature,if the hose and tap are warm, the will warm the beer. Warmer beer has less ability to keep Co2 in solution, therefore it comes out as foam.
     
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  20. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Another question for you, what temperature did you carbonate the beer at?
     

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