Extract vs all grain

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Jimsal, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Jimsal

    Jimsal Member

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    ok. Another question. Do you guys think all grain brews need longer to condition then an extract brew? I've brewed three extract brews and I feel the flavor profile was pretty much done by the time it went to bottle. It changed with some carb and a little more time in the bottle the taste was basically there. My first all grain brew is in the bottle for about a week n I tried it. I feel like it just needs more time. It feels muddy. Lots of flavors going on. I have nothing to base this on but my gut feeling. Maybe it's just a bad recipe idk. So I figured id ask your Experiences.
     
  2. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    that's interesting, never really thought about it.

    It's been a while since i've done extract, but in my mind it'd take the same amount of time to condition and be ready to drink. The only difference between extract and ag is who is doing the mashing, not who's doing the conditioning

    imo, a week is far too short to be able to make a good judgement. my bottles usually aren't even carbed up until 2 weeks or so. and you're right, the carbonation does affect the taste that we perceive

    out of curiosity, what was your recipe? what's the ABV?
    i know when i started BIAB, i'd read descriptions of all the malts and want to put in a little bit of everything in the same batch. I did a brown ale with at least 7 different malts, and it tasted, well, brown
     
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  3. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    Go with your gut feeling. Judging beer by taste is a subjective thing, and while experience is vital, ultimately it comes down to you and your perceptions. I agree with jmcnamara that there's probably nothing inherent is ag that would make it take longer to condition. May just be your recipe is taking its time. Patience, and observation.
     
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  4. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    That's good... I like to keep things simple myself. Until I know I can consistently brew a simple ale with a simple recipe there's no point in adding a bunch of stuff. I wouldn't have any idea what ingredient did what. Crawl before walk before run. Then drink.
     
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  5. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    agreed. there's a reason i chose my avatar, although that guy doesn't look particularly patient ;)

    you can always brew another batch to distract you while the current one is still maturing
     
  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Short answer on conditioning: Nope. There's no reason I can think of for it to take longer for extract wort to condition than all-grain wort. A week is generally not long enough - give it at least another one before deciding. I'd need to know what you mean by "muddy" but I find if I put in too many ingredients, the flavor comes out to me "brown" - likely the same thing. Extracts use simple profiles, the head brewer at Bierstadt Lagerhaus's mantra is five malts, three hops max. So give it the time, as you suggest, and if it's still "muddy," you may just have too many flavors going on. By the way, gut feel is ultimately how we all approach beer.
     
  7. Jimsal

    Jimsal Member

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    Here's my recipe.
    8lbs Maris otter
    4oz biscuit malt
    4oz cara malt 120
    4oz chocolate malt
    4oz special b
    1 oz Fuggle 60 min
    Nottingham yeast.
    I tried to mash @152.
    Sg 1052
    Fg 1005
    abv 6.17.
    Two weeks in fermenter.
    I found this on the Internet. I think beer smith.
    Bye muddy I mean a lot of flavors very busy.
     
  8. Brew Cat

    Brew Cat Active Member

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    Brown ales to me get better as they mature. That recipe looks like something that would need more than two weeks IMO
     
  9. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

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    just one thing to note, morris has a slight biscuit flavor of its own, if you want you could use 2 row and biscuit and get the same flavor saving a few dollars but the recipe looks fine, you will need to age longer than the normal pale beer
     
  10. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    You are probably correct in noticing a difference but to back up what has been said an extract should be very similar to simple all grain but a "complex" all grain will need more time than an extract or a simple all grain. Also Notingham Yeast needs time to settle and mellow out IMO.
     
  11. Jimsal

    Jimsal Member

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    Thank you guys your feedback is very much appreciated.
     
  12. das alte

    das alte Member

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    I believe that the conditioning period for extract beer depends on the quality of the syrup. Extract is the resultant liquid left when malt is being tested and it can be made from poor or fine malt. To make it stable and easier to ship the liquid is reduced to syrup. The extract was originally bakers malt extract. The conditioning period for beer is dependent on original gravity, primary ferment, wort stability, types of sugar produced during mashing, body, protein, beta glucan and starch carry over. The more gunk ( albuminous protein, beta glucan and starch carry over which is caused when mash out is performed with single infusion) that is left in the wort causes the beer to deteriorate during conditioning. When the gunk drops out hop character and flavor suffer, leaving the beer thin and sweet. When the protein drops out, the beer becomes thin due to lack of body.
    Marris Otter is an over modified malt which means that it is less rich in enzymes. (Kolbach or SNR number determines modification). The malt is low protein which is good. Actually, when it comes to making beer, other than single infusion beer the malt is extremely difficult to work with due to over modification.
    Although, a recipe may contain several types of grain it doesn't necessarily make the beer complex. The complexity comes from variances of the malt dictated by nature. Due to variances caused by nature a malt data sheet accompanies every sack of grain. The sheet helps a brewer to determine the quality of the malt and its make up.
     
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  13. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I've always referred to extract like your packaged macaroni cheese meal compared to one you made yourself from scratch adding in each different ingredient yourself amount of cheese type of cheese and pasta the types and amounts of herbs . A homemade killer macaroni meal will always beat a store bought pre pagaged macaroni meal yep it might be quicker but not necessarily more tasty:).​
     
  14. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    That depends: You can get a good package of packaged mac and cheese and get a pretty good meal! I've won awards with extract beer and in certain cases, see absolutely no need to go to the trouble of mashing. There are few absolutes in brewing!
     
  15. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Horses for courses aye Nosey. well I like mashing it adds an extra dimension to brewing I like to control everything in the brew pot plus I also get to control fermentability of the wort colour everything. I remember when doing extract I ended up in the middle zone of extract partial mashing and adding aroma hops anyway so just one more step to all grain.

    The quality of my beer has increased per brew on average since stepping to all grain biab brewing along with my understanding of what's going on in the brewing process.

    Extract is great to start out on but once you grasp the basics then all grain is naturally the next step in craft brewing.

    If you just want the same beer every time and don't care for experimentation or other beer styles stick with kit and kilo by all means.;)
     
  16. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    On another forum I use there's 2 partial mash brewers both placed well in national home brewing comp .

    How you treat the wort is more important than who did the mashing , an AG beer can be rubbish and some extract /pm beers are simply supurb
     
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  17. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    In extract brewing, one would be stuck with the grains used to create the extract. But there are different types of extract, light, amber, dark, etc. It seems to me that it should be possible for someone, who really knew the ins and outs of brewing, to make 2 identically tasting beers: one made from extract, and one made from all grain.
     
  18. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    The range of extracts available now is staggering , I know some AG brewers look down on extract /pm brewers but I'm not one of them
     
  19. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    I think most all grain brewers look down on extract brewers. To me, it's about how deep you want to get into the hobby. Wanna do it the making orange juice way, and do the Mr. Beer hopped extract method? Go for it! Do what makes you happy. Unhopped extract, partial mash, BIAB, 3 vessel. Lots of different ways to make beer. And there's room for everyone to be happy.
     
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  20. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    The real test is in the glass !
     
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