European Units for Water Hardness

[surfmase]

Hello everyone,

I have been having problems brewing lighter beers since moving. The water here in Zürich is very hard, and I have some problems converting the information gathered from the utility to something I can input into the calculator. Specifically the HCO3 value. Here is my local water profile:
Ca 110 mg/L
Mg 6.7 mg/L
SO4 6 mg/L
Cl 0.02 mg/L
Na 4.4 mg/L
Gesamthärte (total hardness) 2.95 mmol/L
Säureverbrauch (alkalinity) 5.62 mmol/L

So I have checked total hardness based on the Ca and Mg, and come close the the given value. This translates to 17 dH, 30 fH, or 300 ppm CaCO3.

The calculator asks for HCO3, which I do not explicitly have. Can someone assist with figuring this out?

All of my light ales and lagers are much darker than expected, and there is typically a harshness to the bitter taste. I have tried diluting with distilled water between 0.25 and 0.75% and then compensating the minerals with Gypsum and Salts. The homebrew shop here as well as the latest book I've read from a German author suggest using lactic acid and/or sour malt to correct for hard water. I will try this next time. In the meantime I would still like to know what my HCO3 actually is.

Thanks for the input.
Darrell

 

[UgliestLemming]

HCO3 = CaCO3 * 1.22
From what I found

 

[Nosybear]

You might also try boiling your water then letting it cool overnight. That will precipitate the temporary hardness out as calcium carbonate. I'm not familiar enough with the chemistry to know exactly what you'd end up with but I think you'd end up with somewhere around 40 mg/l calcium, significantly lowering your water hardness.

 

[surfmase]

Thank you! So the 61/50 conversion I saw on howtobrew applies. I don't know why I was skeptical.

Wow, I didn't realize boiling it would produce such a large difference. So: Boil, let cool, transfer water without scale to HLT? Any risk after boiling that the precipitate goes back into solution? I think I'll try that next, and put the sour malt off for later.

Thanks again.

 

[Nosybear]

Surfmase: I didn't do the math and water chemistry isn't easy. But you're right about the general procedure: Boil then rack the water off the scale. Doesn't work for me, by the way. I only have about 40 ppm calcium in my water, so all my water hardness is permanent. I have to use acid for pale beers. Key is to get the residual alkalinity, another complex chemistry problem, down to the range indicated for the color of your beer. John Palmer has a spreadsheet and a nomograph to allow you to know what RA you need.

 

[Glen Gallo]

Are you removing chlorine/chloramine with a activated carbon filter first?

I am just learning about the brew water formulas. But I did work with water for 14 years. We produced portable spot free car wash equipment for car dealers. Hardness in water can be removed 4 ways ion exchange such as a

1) water softener which is not recommended as you exchange salt of calcium

2 deionize or a cation anion exchange to filter your water through

3 reverse osmosis

3 distillation

1 softener would never be recommended for anything other than pre treating water for reverse osmosis. The salt runs off the membrane and sticks less than calcium

2 deionized tanks are point of use if not monitored can over run and then bleed all the contaminants out making ultra hard water

3 a very good solution wastes allot of water

4 a very good solution wastes allot of energy

2,3 and four you can the use formulas to build whatever profile you are seeking

I would try running your water through a carbon block type filter and see what your results are. I think you should be able to get good or even great beer from your tap. Here in San Diego what you consider hard water would be very soft

Alternatively you do not achieve results see if you can purchase RO or Distilled water in bulk ie 20 liters at a time or whatever it takes to brew

 

[surfmase]

Thanks Glen,

No I have not yet filtered the water. I really wasn't concerned with the chlorine since I think it's low and they don't use chloramine as a treatment.

I do have a Brita water jar, I could try using that once. I'm naturally looking for something inexpensive and easy. For lighter beers I have tried 75% distilled water with 25% tap water, with some salt additions. Wasn't happy with the results, maybe I wasn't doing something right.

I lived in mission beach for a while; but can't recall anything about the water except that some friends though it was strange that I drank the tap water... This was a while ago though. Hard, high alkalinity, I'm not sure, but here the water leaves scale on everything. We use products which we add to the washing machines and home appliances to keep them from clogging up.

Im brewing tomorrow and I've just boiled some as nosy bear suggested. We'll see how that goes.