Dunkelweiss - please help me create my daughter's b-day present

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by jay3847, Apr 27, 2018.

  1. jay3847

    jay3847 Member

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    I am about to rebrew a dunkelweiss after royally f-ing up the last batch. I brewed a big batch of green apply nastiness and don't want to do that again. Please comment on the recipe and process. This is a BYO recipe.

    Method BIAB
    Dunkelweiss
    3.75 gallons
    boil time 90 min
    OG 1.052, FG 1.014 ABV 5.02

    5 pounds Canadian pale wheat
    2.5 pounds Munich light 10L
    6oz Caramunich III
    2oz German Carafa II

    .75oz domestic hallertau at 60 mins

    Mash at 154

    Water is RO + 1.5 gypsum, 1 Epson, 2.5 calcium chloride, .5 chalk

    Yeast WLP300, pitch at .75 ale for 137B cells, oxygenate 60seconds with small bubbles, ferment at 62 and rising just after high krausen to 69. Let it sit on the yeast cake for 2 weeks. Maybe gelatin for coldcrash at 40 for a few days.

    Bottle.
     
  2. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

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    what you were tasting is not in the recipe, its from not worming up the wort and letting the acetaldehyde leave the beer, after 7-10 days warm the wort up to 70ish and let it set for a couple of days, thats the clean up stage to remove acetaldehyde or green apple taste
     
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  3. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    ok ive not brewed a dunkel weis. i know your going to be nervous on this one but i second Oz comment i finnish all my beers 21c for a few days as ferment is ending it serves to activate remaining yeast that havnt flocked yet to hopefully finnish off what ever sugar us left and metabolize any nasty flavours.

    others with more experience in tgis style depaetment can help for sure.
    one other thing i might do but depends on what your after is add the carrafa at mash out to reduce any astringent flavour maybe...
     
  4. KC

    KC Active Member

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    Recipe's pretty good. It's very similar to mine which is 3/4 red wheat, 1/4 munich, and a handful of huskless midnight wheat.
    If you use de-husked carafa special instead of carafa, then you don't need caramunich to hide any astringency.
    I would also recommend doing the hallertau at first wort.

    A 90 minute boil is unnecessarily long unless you mash really thin
     
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  5. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    First, lose the gypsum. The last thing you want to do in this beer is emphasize hops - they're only there to reduce the impression of sweetness. Lose the chalk as well - you really don't need carbonate in this beer, the chalk won't dissolve unless the solute is acid and it can lead to gushers through the formation of calcium phosphate crystals. Add calcium chloride to 50 ppm and call it done - if your mash pH winds up to high, add a little phosphoric or lactic acid to bring it down to 5.2-5.6. Without punching the recipe into the calculator, I'd guess you're in the range for IBUs, maybe high, you want in the 10-15 range. 90 minute boil is okay, not necessary. The grist looks to me to be a bit heavy on the wheat malt but that's not really an issue. Pitch rate may be a little high for a Weizen - this is a case where you actually want to stress the yeast. Fermentation schedule will favor clove flavors, good for a Dunkelweizen. All in all, aside from over-modifying the water, a good recipe, with good process behind it you should get a very drinkable Dunkel.
     
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  6. jay3847

    jay3847 Member

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    This exactly the feedback was looking for. Thank you!!!

    So you suggest an under pitch? Maybe 1 pack of good yeast with no starter (roughly 50 million cells/ml). Won’t that lead to acetaldehyde again?
     
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  7. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    That's about what I usually do, although I may change my procedure after the last dampfbier I made (think Weizen with no wheat)! Thanks for calling me on that - if you can get a good, fresh pack (close to the 100 billion cells), pitch it straight, otherwise about a half-liter starter should work well. General guidance for Weizens is to underpitch and so I forgot my own experience. I don't think weizen yeasts throw much acetaldehyde but there's always been a harsh taste to them for me so maybe I should pay more attention to pitch rate.
     
  8. jay3847

    jay3847 Member

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    Great idea on the frirst wort hopping. I'm not whether I used de-husked or not since I didn't even know that was a thing. 90 minute boil is a PIA since by that time I am usually ready for a nap. :)
     
  9. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    FWH is an option for this beer; however, you'll have to change the amount.
     
  10. KC

    KC Active Member

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    Carafa Special I, II and III are the de-husked versions of Carafa I, II, and III. Not all brew stores have it. Midnight Wheat and Blackprinz are huskless substitutes. I actually prefer them.


    I think the default util% of 110 is too high in the FWH calculator. I find it's closer to 70%
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Remember, IBUs are mg/l or ppm of iso-alpha acid in the beer. Bitterness is flavor perception. The two are related but not the same. FWH will produce the iso-alpha acid but not the "bitterness" as perceived. I find I like the outcome of the calculator when I FWH and if you're getting excessive bitterness, especially harsh bitterness, I'd look elsewhere for the cause, likely chlorine or dark malt.
     
  12. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree with this! Man, I wish someone had told me this sooner. I loved my weizens - then, I got to messing with that dang yeast calculator! Last 4-6 batches have been clove heavy or balanced at best! Much better when I underpitched!
     
  13. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

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    BTW, How'd the recipe/B-day present turn out?
     
  14. jay3847

    jay3847 Member

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    Here's how the story ended.......

    I just finished cleaning the bottles returned to me by a very happy daughter. That is what was important. Overall, I think it was a good foray into the world of weizens. Here are the take-aways.

    1- I'm going to continue trying other yeasts and settle into one I like
    2- I did get a nice, delicate banana and clove flavor --- not a banana bomb, but also more delicate than I was after
    3- No acetaldehyde. Yeah!!! Under-pitch helped in many ways.
    4- I liked the body of the beer much better when I got the yeast back into suspension before drinking.
    5- I did FWH but I don't know Hallertau enough to sense the difference.

    Thanks everyone. Next step is a Hefeweizen and putting all this knowledge to the test.
     

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