Dry Hop Utilization / New Beer Recipe

Discussion in 'Recipe Editor' started by Mase, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    #1 Mase, Mar 22, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2019
    In the "New Beer Recipe" page, under "Hops", the "Scale Util:" during boil and whirlpool automatically reflect 100%, and the Gray bar at the bottom reflects accordingly: IBUs: 5.76, Util: 0.115, and AAUs: respectively. (See Screenshot A).

    Screenshot A
    Capture3.JPG


    However, there isn't an automatic calculation when selecting "Dry Hop".

    As this specific recipe I am brewing this weekend calls for a large amount of dry hops in two separate dry hop sessions (day 6 and day 9), I added all the dry hops in the recipe, but when i went to look at the "util:" of all 8 dry hop ingredients, all but a couple showed 100% "util:" (in light gray text) with no totals in the gray bar (See Screenshot B).

    Screenshot B
    Captureb.JPG


    The ones that were not at 100% "util:" were at 10% and carried the totals in the gray bar row at the bottom (See Screenshot C). Unfortunately, I do not recall which hops automatically calculated "IBUs:" and "Util:" in the Gray Bar at the bottom, so I created one just for Screenshot C.

    Screenshot C
    Capturec.JPG


    As mentioned above, I can't recall which hops automatically calculated "IBUs:" and "Util:" in the gray bar at the bottom, but it looks like some will automatically calculate to 10% and others don't calculate at all when selecting Dry Hop from the pull down menu.

    So there appears to be a "bug" that needs sorted out as only some hops continue calculating with a Dry Hop selection while others don't, or I am doing something wrong somewhere.

    I would also like to know if 10% is a good Utilization for dry hoping.
     
  2. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I thought utilisation was linked to the hopping phase.

    Though I don't bother with post whirlpool IBUs. I know they're there, but the calculators are so far away from reality and IBUs are such a poor indicator that it seems futile. Even the whirlpool additions at 10% seem to be way below the actuals, but it does 'feel' more like how the bitterness is perceived. So maybe by the whirlpool argument 10% makes sense.

    This was fascinating and made me feel IBU calculations were even more futile than I used to think - http://masterbrewerspodcast.com/123...the-brewing-process-the-quest-for-consistency
     
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  3. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    There is some conversion of iso acids provided the whirlpool starts warm enough. I'd stick with that default for now.
     
  4. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    Oh that’s what I did do, but was trying to point out that the program doesn’t automatically calculate it for some hops, but does for others [Whirlpool]
     
  5. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    That's weird.
     
  6. etfaver@gmail.com

    [email protected] New Member

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    I agree. The calculations used in BF do not accurately reflect IBUs from the actual recipe I imported. A NEIPA recipe from Weldworks, shows IBU of 55, but when I input the same values in BF, the result was 86.5 IBUs. That is a big difference.
     
  7. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    Are you looking into this as well Yooper?
     
  8. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    My comment wasn't about the calculations used on this site, it was about the various formulae to predict IBU and how they are poor predictors of IBU and then how IBU is a poor predictor of perceived bitterness. I expect the other brewing software has the same problems as they're all using the same formulae.

    And that's not really relevant to Mase's issue, which I think I've hit before, but I haven't paid enough attention to when and how to say more than I thought I'd seen something similar when changing the hop addition phase.
     
  9. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Yes.

    There is quite a bit of new research that shows that some IBUs are imparting during non-boiling periods beyond what was previously thought- like during dryhopping. How much is up for debate- and we all have different opinions so it’s hard to say how much exactly.

    That makes it really hard to use IBU predictors based on boil gravity, which they all are. Since there is no boil, in theory the IBU contribution should be 0 but we all know from recent findings that isn’t so.

    We’ve left it up to the brewer to either go with the defaults (the best we can do), or to alter the hops utilization based on time, temperature, and AAUs.
     
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  10. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    My initial post was pointing out that the program calculates some hops but not others. When I select whirlpool addition. Some hops indicated a 10% util, and others didn’t.
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention not all bitterness is iso-alpha acid. Any hop addition adds some bitterness, period. Question science hasn't provided the answer to is how much.
     
  12. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.... I’m not questioning the theory, rather the calculator does compute some hop utilization and IBU contribution for some whirlpool hops, but not all.
     
  13. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    It does compute them all- if you have your settings to do so!
     
  14. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot “B” in the initial post shows it didn’t. :D
     
  15. lonelymtn

    lonelymtn Member

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    I was recently reading this paper that analyses sub-boiling hop utilization.

    https://alchemyoverlord.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/an-analysis-of-sub-boiling-hop-utilization/

    Unfortunately, the raw data is not presented, but there is a diagram (albeit small) that shows hop utilization by temperate by time. I have found it useful for inputting whirlpool values. It would great if we could get the calculated values from the author and get that plugged in to the software -- and by that, I mean a user would specify time and temp, and the utilization would be automatically derived.
     

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