Diastaticus... Talk me off the ledge?

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Donoroto, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. Donoroto

    Donoroto Well-Known Member

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    My sincere thanks to @Trialben for introducing me to the term Diastaticus, in regards to yeast.

    After a month-long wine fermentation (which came out fine, BTW), I'd managed to run out of beer, so as a treat my first was a hefeweitzen, my favorite. On a recent MoreBeer! order, I was browsing and noticed two dry yeasts advertised as being for wheat beers, one from Lallemand (Munich Classic) and one from Safale (WB06). After a nice brew morning, when it came time to pitch, I chose the WB06 , since I'd been happy with other Safale products like US05 and S04.

    Diastaticus yeast is a variety that has high attenuation due to its ability to also ferment starches and more complex sugars. Some may want this, such as in a Saison which tends to be drier, while others may cringe at the term, because Diastaticus is considered an infection by many: It dries out the beer too much, and because that additional fermentation happens slowly, it often occurs after bottling, leading to excessive carbonation and pressure. Read Bottle Bomb.

    As it turns out. WB06 is good for Berliner Weissbiere, the somewhat tart or sour-ish version, which is not a beer style I enjoy even a little. But this yeast is definitely not for the fruity hefeweitzen, it's Munich cousin, which is banana-y, bready, sometimes bubblegum and clove.

    I'm less than 24 hours into fermentation, and the LHBS is closed today. My inclination is to east the $30+ and dump this batch, so on Monday I can re-brew it and use proper yeast. If I keg it, I probably won't want to drink it, and then I'd be also contaminating a keg with Diastaticus. Is it a sin to dump a beer because you don't think you'll like it?

    How can I clean my stainless steel conical fermenter to be sure of eliminating any traces of this yeast? I plan to replace all the gaskets for the tri-clamp fittings, and boil the silicone top cover gasket. Will boiling inactivate all the yeast? Will StarSan kill all the yeast? Should I move on to something stronger, like 91% Isopropyl Alcohol or 95% Ethyl Alcohol for sterilization? (I know enough to not use bleach on stainless).

    Oh, and this ($30+, time, effort, etc) is the cost of education. Just like university, where you pay $$$ for each credit, I'm think I'm getting away cheap here when it comes to an education about Diastaticus.

    So before I move forward, I decided to pause a day and ask for opinions. I'm still much inclined to re-do it though.
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    As Ben would say, let her buck, she'll be right. At least let your inadvertent experiment run to completion and see what you get...
     
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  3. Bubba Wade

    Bubba Wade Well-Known Member

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    Yeast, in general, start to die off at 120 F, and most all are killed off by 140 F. While the diastaticus yeast is a bit different, it is still an ale yeast. So boiling water at 210+ will kill it, especially if left in contact for any length of time. Star San is effective on bacteria, but is used in brewing specifically because it is not generally harmful to yeast.
     
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  4. SabreSteve

    SabreSteve Well-Known Member

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    I would never dump something without tasting. If it comes out decent tasting that's a win. If it's not your style maybe someone you know will like it and you can do a bottle trade.

    I had a minor infection at one point and cleaned or swapped out everything from my bottles to my tubing and eventually fermenter and I switched it up between PBW and diluted bleach just to be extra careful. It's true you shouldn't use bleach but Bubba has a great point. It's stainless. You can boil that sucker to sterilize it and there's not much that would affect your beer that can survive those temps
     
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  5. Donoroto

    Donoroto Well-Known Member

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    Thanks fellows, I will let it go and see. From 1.062 it's already at 1.036 so might as well. What is the worst that can happen? Ben shows up demanding a growler?

    Thanks @Bubba Wade for the info on StarSan, didn't know it wasn't effective on yeast. As for thermal: I can boil most of the bits, and the fermenter lid will fit in the dishwasher, but the main body will just get a great scrubbing, maybe a light touch of bleach, some grain alcohol and a hit with the propane torch. OK, maybe not the torch...

    As for the eventual keg, I'll sterilize that too, with a bunch of really hot water, like 200F from the hot liquor tank. (Well, technically the brewzilla...). And all new gaskets too.

    Sigh. Thank you again for being the reasonable and sane people in the room.

    RHAHBADP (And Don't Panic)...
     
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  6. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    upload_2021-4-18_22-32-14.png
    Have you thought about Caustic Soda? I believe it is part of the CIP process at some brewers...
     
  7. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    #7 HighVoltageMan!, Apr 18, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
    Diastaticus yeast just produces amylase enzyme during fermentation, it’s common among Belgian yeasts and gives them their distinctive high attenuation. The enzyme just keeps working on unconverted starches during the fermentation and the yeast keeps eating. Eventually it comes to a stop.

    Diastaticus yeast is not an infection unless it comes from the yeast supplier with another yeast that isn’t a diastaticus yeast. White Labs was sued over this and it’s not easy to detect a few of unwanted yeast among the desired yeast. It’s not a super yeast, simple pasteurizing will kill it. 145 F for 15-20 seconds. A good cleaning is likely to get rid of it too.

    Don’t sweat it, it’s gonna be totally fine.
     
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  8. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    The reasons it got the over excited coverage is not that it's harder to kill than normal yeast, it's just that there's more repercussions if you don't. Most of the breweries that got caught out were finding it in things that had poor clean in place processes, canning and filling lines, etc.

    If you can cope with more than one yeast strain in your brewery without cross contamination you can cope with diastaticus (and brett and lactobacillus). And the repercussions at our level are much simpler. A batch or two over attenuated and then you give all your equipment a bleach wash.
     
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  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    You know the beer I used it in was a strawberry wheat beer I was wondering why it finished so tart and crisp I thought must be the stwarberrys adding some acidity to the finished product but I suspect diastaticus played the the lead role. I enjoyed the beer too and I'm sure you'll enjoy yours.
    Let her buck Let her buck baby:p!
    Oh and please post a follow up speal and a pic ;)...
     
  10. Minbari

    Minbari Active Member

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    Use iodifor. That will kill pretty much anything biological
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Nothing in the world wrong with using bleach as long as you rinse thoroughly and what you're cleaning isn't stainless steel. As with iodofor, it kills just about everything.
     
  12. Donoroto

    Donoroto Well-Known Member

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    Everything here is stainless steel, so I will opt for the iodophor route when the time comes,. At 1.024 and dropping, but slowing down a little.

    I know I can clean the fermenter, it's the keg I worry about. But either very hot water, iodophor, plus new gaskets and I suspect I can eliminate every last little diastatcus there ever was. Certainly it won't be for lack of effort.

    (Side note: About 15 years ago, I found a mouse in the basement of my previous house. Ghaaa! The next morning I went to Lowe's and bought every single thing was sold to kill a mouse, $70 worth. Set it all up in the basement that evening. Next day, the mouse was dead: The $0.49 mouse trap got him... The point is, I panic and default to overkill. And will sterilize my fermenter and keg...)

    I'm just wondering if I'll like the beer.
     
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  13. Minbari

    Minbari Active Member

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    if you dont, sour beer works great for brats or bread :D
     
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