Collecting Yeast for Future Brews

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Thurston Brewer, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    Looking for ideas here... what's the best way for collecting yeast to save and use in a future brew? Primary? Secondary?

    What about cleaning, storing and re-constituting? Any stories of successes (or failures) would be helpful!
     
  2. BrewerRick

    BrewerRick Member

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    they have many articles on the subjects. you can do anything you want its pretty basic you just need to read and get the stuff you need.
    when i started it was cheaper to buy single packs of yeast pitch then throw away after it was done. Once i got into all grain and larger batches i would store the yeast after fermentation as i could in a mason jar then make a starter and so forth. they have many ways of doing it depends what one you are more comfortable with and works for you..
     
  3. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    As with all thins home brewing there is more than one way to skin a cato_O. I've tried washing yeast at end of both primary and secondary, secondary less trub. I've tried top cropping to great successes you wait till high krausen prob day 2-3 ,sterilise jar, sterilised spoon then scrape off creamy krausen and add it to jar then top to brim with sterilised water. Then chuck it in fridge label it and use as needed. And now I try brulosophers version of snatching 500ml of starter before cold crashing . Eg when making starter over build it to account for 500ml that will be kept for next brew. This way yeast won't be stressed from undergoing fermentation no hops no trub just clean health yeast. Good luck and I think it's definitely worth it. Dry yeast here in Aus can cost 9bucks a pack liquid yeast 13bucks plus shipping. Dry malt extract 10bucks a kilo will make you plenty of starters and help you save plenty of coin on yeast. Check out www.brewlosopher.com and look for his yeast starter link pictures will tell the story.

    Now remember though that sanitation is key to making this work so be careful it may save ya some dollars but may cost you more in a dodgey batch gone bad:eek:.
     
  4. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    i use a similar method to what Marshall does .

    i build my starters larger than i need( 20% or so) so i can build it up again , refrigerate it, decant the beer and store in jars in the fridge .

    This is very useful for the seasonal strains or yeasts that i cultivate from commercial beers , i do a clone of my favourite commercial beer ( Coopers Pale ale ) that is bottle conditioned , i drink the bottles but save the yeast and build it up for my own beers .
    i don't generally take it that far but other brewers i know get up to 9 generations out of a single purchase of yeast
     
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  5. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    rather than washing / top harvesting yeast , this way im always pitching yeast grown in identical environments , unhopped wort of the same gravity at similar temps .

    from my reading if you take the yeast in the Krausen you get more genetic drift ie: it encourages a higher attenuation rate , i value predictable and consistent over almost anything else
     
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  6. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I see a few brews locally call for recultured coopers yeast. I love fat yak and national home brew boasts best results from re cultured coopers yeast. How have you found this yeast Mark? What has the attenuation and floculation been like any yeast flavours? Clean ? Cheers
     
  7. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Pic of starter wlp090 last batch prior to pinching some for next brew
     

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  8. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    It is English in origin .
    @16 C it throws a few mild Peach esters , at 18 C+ Banana
    AA wise i often get over 80 % with healthy starters and a step mashed wort , i break my own rules with this yeast and bottle after 9-12 days to ensure there's enough yeast left in suspension to carbonate .
    you keg so to get the real flavour you'd be shaking kegs to get it into suspension before serving
     
  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    It ferments well at 16c eh? I might have to get me some coopers pale,ale this weekend and spin up a culture. How do you go,about this Mark? i wouldn't mind doing a coopers sparkling ale... It must flock pretty good too if your bottling early to,catch some yeast before it settles out. Cheers for the info mate;)
     
  10. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    unlike about every other beer on the market Coopers comes with a best after date not a best before , use the freshest beer you can find (pale / mild are the best )
    best results come from long necks , sit them upright in fridge for a few days-week , pour 95% of the beer off leaving the yeast intact then swirl to get them off bottle base .

    i like waking them up with pure table sugar , 3 long necks worth of yeast in 500 mls of boiled then cooled water with 50g white sugar.
    ferment , chill then decant beer
    step up to 1,000 ml of wort with 50g white table sugar and 50g LDM
    ferment ,chill and decant beer
    step up to 1,500 ml with 150g of LDM
    ferment , chill and decant beer
    i pitch 2/3rds of the yeast into a batch , save other 1/3rd in the fridge .

    it's simply a monster of a yeast , being bred for commercial use it can get fussy about temp but works quickly and drops like a stone .
    not ideal for many styles as it does throw esters but for certain beers it's just perfect .

    Run it at 16.5 C until it hits 75 % AA then raise temps to 18-19 for another few days for clean up , no cold crash needed and bottle / keg early
     
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  11. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Champion thank you so much can't wait to get this yeast munching on some brews :D
     
  12. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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  13. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    Thanks for all the replies, folks. I'm guessing that Cooper's is an Aussie thing - not available in the States (though I'll keep my eye open).

    I'm about to make a nice porter using WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast and my thought is to harvest enough to put aside and freeze small packets I can use for future starters. I want to avoid genetic drift, too, but I'm thinking the best way is to get 10 or so second gen cultures in the freezer then I can make the next 10 batches from that. I would be nervous about going multi-generations because I'd have no way of checking to see if it had evolved... even with precautions that would be impossible to control.

    So, my real question is whether it would be preferable to get my crop from the top 'pancake' created by the top fermenting yeast in the primary, wait til after racking to secondary to harvest from the bottom of the primary (not using much hops), or wait until bottling to collect from the bottom of the secondary. I suppose logically the top crop would be the least 'evolved', so maybe that would be my target?

    I could try all three and compare....
     
  14. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    the best way not save but to store yeast for the future is to create a starter with one vile or packet , decant split into 2 then start again creating 2 starters and so on until you have the amount of yeast you need for the next 6 months, I don't recommend storing yeast un frozen any longer
     
  15. LlewellynBrewHaus

    LlewellynBrewHaus Active Member

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    One thing to concider is yeast harvested from secondary will be your least flocculent, and In just a gen or 2 can lead to beer that doesn't want to clear. Overbuilding is the easiest and most reliable method to stretch your brew budget out, but fwiw in my trial running a strain through 3 generation in your system with very similar or same brews develops that strain into a monster accustom to your system and can lead to some very good beer . I've done this 1272 AAII and 1968 L ESB and SAF 34/70 the change in the finished product to pretty noticeable on the 3rd gen (assuming good fermentation with batch )
    I have always rinsed yeast from my primary, cut out secondary altogether not needed
     
  16. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    So the yeast get used to that particular brew your saying?
     
  17. LlewellynBrewHaus

    LlewellynBrewHaus Active Member

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    Ideally yes, but I also like variety..the 1968 did back to back to back ESB then knocked it out on a 1.130 SG Russian imperial. 1272 went ale, ale, Porter and 34/70 is still stepping o-fest, helles planning chocolate bock then knockout on a pecan dopplebock
     
  18. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    not that the yeast adapt but more that it's a selective harvest , even within a single strain there will be cells that have different properties .
    Fermentis have a page with washing/ instructions aimed more at commercial scale
     
  19. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    Same method will work for any bottle conditioned beer , be aware some brewers use different strains for primary and bottle fermentation
     
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  20. LlewellynBrewHaus

    LlewellynBrewHaus Active Member

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    valhallakrausen.png
    4 gen wy1968 :D
    1 T cells pitched into 3.5 gallon 1.130 wort
     
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