Carapils v. Carafoam

[soccerdad]

Hey all. I'm looking to gain from your wisdom and experience.
I started brewing all grain about 100 years ago and the conventional wisdom at the time said "Carapils at 5% or less will help your beer get a nice head and retain it." A few years later - or rather a few years ago - folks started saying, "It doesn't really do anything." I might have even seen a post from Yooper where she wrote, " I don't use it anymore."
I'm wondering if any of you use it? For a pillowy head - or another reason? Do you value it in certain recipes? Do you associate any taste or flavor with it?
More recently I have seen posts where folks say, "If you want that foamy head, use Carafoam."
Do any of you use it? If so, how do you rate it?
I actually have some of each. I bought a pound of Carafoam when I heard it was the real deal magic that Carapils was supposed to have lo those many years ago.
Here is part of why I ask ... I made a Steam Beer a few weeks back using SF Lager yeast. It had a bit of Carapils in the recipe so I added it to the grist. I packaged it two days ago. I put a gallon in bottles and 2 gallons in a 3G keg. It will need to lager and condition a few weeks. I put gas on the keg, but just 10 psi and it's only been there 50 hours or so. But I had to sneak a taste and was surprised to see a nice white head on a beer that can't yet be fully carbed. Tasted good but a little green so I'm thinking even better in 2 to 4 weeks. Might the Carapils have had that impact?
I'm interested in your thoughts.

 

[Craigerrr]

I have carapils in many of my recipes, but cuurently have carafoam in my carapils storage container.
My understanding is that they are essentially the same malt.
Sorry I can't say that it does, or does not make a difference.
I don't know if I would still get the below effects without it, but I see no reason to experiment with that.
These two pictures are different pulls from the same batch from June of 2019, the same recipe that I brewed yesterday.
We will see if I get the same effect this go around.

 

[Over The Cliff Brewing]

I use Carafoam sometimes but not in all brews

 

[dmtaylor]

It doesn't really do anything. It's like a placebo effect.

If you really want to improve head, add a bit of rye. Like 10% or thereabouts.

 

[soccerdad]

Good point. I've never seen carapils - that I recall - in a recipe that includes wheat, rye, or flaked barley.
Another thing that I heard - saw it in a video featuring a California brewer - is that dextrine malt is a needed addition when using kveik yeasts. And Carapils is a dextrine malt, right?

 

[Megary]

I stopped using it a good while ago. My experience was that it didn’t do anything noticeable. I use wheat malt or flaked barley if I’m looking to add something that I believe is “foam positive”. Might have to try rye as well, as per Dave’s recommendation.

 

[soccerdad]

At the risk of derailing my own thread - I really do want to hear from y'all about your use of CP and CF - I wanted to share this interview with Levi from Long Beach about using dextrine malt in kveik recipes
https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/brew-files-episode-67-quaking-long-beach

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I don't use it any more. In my Helles, International and Czech pils I have 3-5% Carahell for additional flavor instead of Carapils. Head retention is dependent on a lot of factors, yeast, grain bill, hops, etc. To get enough dextrine to have an effect, I found that I needed so much it was starting to make the beer slightly sweet on the finish. I used dextrine extract to get it pretty high. Apparently a lot dextrine in the beer can come off as sweet to some people.

Just brew a great tasting beer and the head will take care of itself.

 

[soccerdad]

This too was interesting ...
Came to me in an email today
A recipe from a pro brewer with 28.5% Carahell (mentioned above) and 8.5% Carapils
https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-d...content=Recipe:+Donner+Pass+American+Pale+Ale

 

[GFHomebrew]

I use wheat I don't use carapils In any recipie havnt ordered any for years.

 

[Craigerrr]

I use wheat I don't use carapils In any recipie havnt ordered any for years.

Alright, so I guess the presence of 810 grams (close to two pounds) of flaked wheat likely has more to do with the head in the beer I posted above then. Learning, always learning.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Alright, so I guess the presence of 810 grams (close to two pounds) of flaked wheat likely has more to do with the head in the beer I posted above then. Learning, always learning.

That's been my experience hey but if it works for you I say stick with it. This brewing aint a one size fits all type approach.

 

[Herm brews]

I have used Carapils at about 4.2% in my Herm’s Amber Ale, a beer that I like enough to have brewed 7 times. There is no telling what it would be without, as I’ve always brewed it with.

 

[Ward Chillington]

I use it in my blonde and I'd say I got more head using english ale yeast over kveik.

 

[WesBrew]

I don't bother with it anymore. i adjust mouthfeel by yeast choice, mash thickness and mash temp. Head seems to be good with all beers

 

[GFHomebrew]

Weighing in on the foam stability retention thing another great head retainer is carbonation level to I've found take for instance this effervescent ginger Ninger Saison

This has 500g of Torrified Wheat in it but the carbonation will keep that foam supported most the way down the glass.
Proof in the pudding

 

[soccerdad]

Alright, so I guess the presence of 810 grams (close to two pounds) of flaked wheat likely has more to do with the head in the beer I posted above then. Learning, always learning.

I appreciate that Craig. At the same time, bear in mind that what we have gathered here is anecdotal versus scientific. I would love to hear your experience taking the CP out and keeping the flaked wheat in. I am going to try taking the CP out of that Steam Beer and see what I get. I'll try to remember to report back.

 

[soccerdad]

This is one of the Steam Beers from the 9 bottles I packaged. Only carbing for about 6 days .. Only chilled for about 4 hours. This one had some CP in in. About 1 ounce per gallon.