CARAMEL/CRYSTAL MALTS
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Caramel/Crystal malts are most certainly fermentable! They contribute about 25 gravity points per pound per gallon with lighter malts contributing more. Their starches have already been converted in the malting process so they do not need to be mashed and they do not contribute any diastatic enzymes to the mash, those are lost to the malting process as well.
Here's a link to Briess Malting with a lot of info about their malts: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/
This table is a little more approachable, describing typical yields of different malts: http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-4-1.html
As you can see, a very light Crystal yields about 30 ppg in the mash, about 14 as a steeping grain (due to diastatic conversion in the mash that doesn't happen in a steep situation).
Hope this helps....
Here's a link to Briess Malting with a lot of info about their malts: http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/
This table is a little more approachable, describing typical yields of different malts: http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-4-1.html
As you can see, a very light Crystal yields about 30 ppg in the mash, about 14 as a steeping grain (due to diastatic conversion in the mash that doesn't happen in a steep situation).
Hope this helps....
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Thanks for clearing that up. The reason i thought that they weren't fermentable was because of something i read. i cut and pasted here:
Fermentable Grains
The following grains should be "mashed" (steeped at about 155°F) and "sparged" (rinsed with water at approximately 168°F. Do not go over 170°F) at controlled temperature prior to boil.
Fermentatal grains
2-Row Pale Malt - ( <1.8° lovibond) -The lightest roast of barley malt. These grains are kilned at just hot enough temperature to drive out moisture without damaging the enzymes within the kernels.Pale malts provide the majority of fermentable grains for most beers, even stouts.
6-row Pale Malt - ( 1.8° lovibond) - is a pale malt made from a different species of barley. Quite high in nitrogen, 6-row malt is used as"hot" base malt for rapid, thorough conversion in a mash, as well as for extra body and fullness; the flavor is more neutral than 2-row malt.
Pale Ale Malt - (3°-4°lovibond) - Slightly darker in color, ideal base for amber to dark colored ales. The darker roast adds a little character to the flavor profile. All Pale Ale beers tend to be gold in color.Mild Ale Malt - (5°-6°lovibond) - A roast darker than pale. Mild ale malts can be used for base for brown ales, milds, porters and stouts.
Victory Malt - (1.5°-2°lovibond) - is specialized lightly-roasted 2-row malt that provides biscuity, caramel flavors to a beer. Similar in color to amber and brown malt, it is often an addition to American brown ale. Ideal for light colored beers, such as pilsners and light beers.
Vienna Malt - (5°-8° lovibond) - Another fermentable grain similiar to Munich, but slightly lighter in color.
Munich Malt - (5°-15° lovibond) - A grain that contributes some amber color and residual sweetness and yet is still very much a fermentable grain. Munich is ideal for Oktoberfest, Munich Dunkels, Hellas, and Bocks.
Biscuit Malt - (30° lovibond) - A marginally fermentable grain that should be used in place for "toasted" malts in many recipes. Biscuit malts add a "toasty" finish to the beer.
Aromatic Malt - (25° lovibond) - Similar to Biscuit malts, but slightly lighter in color, sweeter and more aromatic in the finish.
Wheat Malt - (2° lovibond) - This is a "wheat" version of pale malt. This grain must be crushed and mashed to obtain any amount of yield and flavor. It is a difficult grain to malt. When crushed the wheat malt turns into flour. It is recommended to blend with pale malt. Small amouts of wheat can be incorporated into many beer styles to enhance head retention.
Barley Flakes - Are un-malted grains that have been fed through heated rollers which gelatize their starches. Barley flakes impart a delightful smooth grainy finish to the beer and enhances head retention. Typical use is 1/4 to 1 lb per 5 gallons.
Flaked Maize - An attractive sweet "corn on the cob" flavor to some beer styles. Flaked Rice - Rice produces a more neutral flavor than maize and is preferred for some American styles beers.Flaked Oats, Wheat,and Rye - Similar use as barley flakes. Each has its' unique flavor.
Non Fermentable
Caramel/Crystal Malts - This is the most popular specialty grain used by homebrewers. Crystal malt is taken "green" or wet from the sprouting vessel and is first dried for a few minutes at temperatures approaching boiling. The starch is converted into sugars and the interior of the grain liquefies. A further boost in temperature caramelizes these sugars (Carmel Malts), thus rendering them un-fermentable.
Cara-Munich/Cara-Pils/Cara- Meduim to dark Crystal.Caramel malts.
Special "B" Malt - is the missing link between Crystal/Caramel malts and Chocolate malts.
Chocolate Malt - roasted to a (350/400° lovibond).
Black Patent Malt - roasted to a (500/600° lovibond).
Roasted Un-malted Barley - It is an unroasted version of Chocolate and Black Malts.
Fermentable Grains
The following grains should be "mashed" (steeped at about 155°F) and "sparged" (rinsed with water at approximately 168°F. Do not go over 170°F) at controlled temperature prior to boil.
Fermentatal grains
2-Row Pale Malt - ( <1.8° lovibond) -The lightest roast of barley malt. These grains are kilned at just hot enough temperature to drive out moisture without damaging the enzymes within the kernels.Pale malts provide the majority of fermentable grains for most beers, even stouts.
6-row Pale Malt - ( 1.8° lovibond) - is a pale malt made from a different species of barley. Quite high in nitrogen, 6-row malt is used as"hot" base malt for rapid, thorough conversion in a mash, as well as for extra body and fullness; the flavor is more neutral than 2-row malt.
Pale Ale Malt - (3°-4°lovibond) - Slightly darker in color, ideal base for amber to dark colored ales. The darker roast adds a little character to the flavor profile. All Pale Ale beers tend to be gold in color.Mild Ale Malt - (5°-6°lovibond) - A roast darker than pale. Mild ale malts can be used for base for brown ales, milds, porters and stouts.
Victory Malt - (1.5°-2°lovibond) - is specialized lightly-roasted 2-row malt that provides biscuity, caramel flavors to a beer. Similar in color to amber and brown malt, it is often an addition to American brown ale. Ideal for light colored beers, such as pilsners and light beers.
Vienna Malt - (5°-8° lovibond) - Another fermentable grain similiar to Munich, but slightly lighter in color.
Munich Malt - (5°-15° lovibond) - A grain that contributes some amber color and residual sweetness and yet is still very much a fermentable grain. Munich is ideal for Oktoberfest, Munich Dunkels, Hellas, and Bocks.
Biscuit Malt - (30° lovibond) - A marginally fermentable grain that should be used in place for "toasted" malts in many recipes. Biscuit malts add a "toasty" finish to the beer.
Aromatic Malt - (25° lovibond) - Similar to Biscuit malts, but slightly lighter in color, sweeter and more aromatic in the finish.
Wheat Malt - (2° lovibond) - This is a "wheat" version of pale malt. This grain must be crushed and mashed to obtain any amount of yield and flavor. It is a difficult grain to malt. When crushed the wheat malt turns into flour. It is recommended to blend with pale malt. Small amouts of wheat can be incorporated into many beer styles to enhance head retention.
Barley Flakes - Are un-malted grains that have been fed through heated rollers which gelatize their starches. Barley flakes impart a delightful smooth grainy finish to the beer and enhances head retention. Typical use is 1/4 to 1 lb per 5 gallons.
Flaked Maize - An attractive sweet "corn on the cob" flavor to some beer styles. Flaked Rice - Rice produces a more neutral flavor than maize and is preferred for some American styles beers.Flaked Oats, Wheat,and Rye - Similar use as barley flakes. Each has its' unique flavor.
Non Fermentable
Caramel/Crystal Malts - This is the most popular specialty grain used by homebrewers. Crystal malt is taken "green" or wet from the sprouting vessel and is first dried for a few minutes at temperatures approaching boiling. The starch is converted into sugars and the interior of the grain liquefies. A further boost in temperature caramelizes these sugars (Carmel Malts), thus rendering them un-fermentable.
Cara-Munich/Cara-Pils/Cara- Meduim to dark Crystal.Caramel malts.
Special "B" Malt - is the missing link between Crystal/Caramel malts and Chocolate malts.
Chocolate Malt - roasted to a (350/400° lovibond).
Black Patent Malt - roasted to a (500/600° lovibond).
Roasted Un-malted Barley - It is an unroasted version of Chocolate and Black Malts.
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...always reference your sources, that way you can't be accused of plagiarism or blamed for erroneous infos. 
I assume what you "quoted" above came from here!?
http://www.brewmonkeys.com/blogs/home-brewing-blog/3307282-fermentable-grains
I assume what you "quoted" above came from here!?
http://www.brewmonkeys.com/blogs/home-brewing-blog/3307282-fermentable-grains
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Yes, what i quoted did come from there. I'll remember to reference next time.
Getting back to my original question. Nosybear answered that Caramel/Crystal malts are fermentable, and he seems knowledgable, and he also backed it up with some info. I guess i should dismiss the quote that I pasted earlier.
Getting back to my original question. Nosybear answered that Caramel/Crystal malts are fermentable, and he seems knowledgable, and he also backed it up with some info. I guess i should dismiss the quote that I pasted earlier.
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Yup. I am no expert, but from what I have read, and what is confirmed by the calculators here and my own experience, Caramel malts already contain more complex sugars. Meaning, still fermentable, just not *as* fermentable...SCHEMM said:
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I think someone confused "fermentable" with "doesn't require mashing". Crystal malt starches have been converted to sugars and are available to brewers through steeping. Starches that have not been converted such as those in base malts and light Crystals are not.
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Nosybear, I think you just de-confused me, too!
You said, "As you can see, a very light Crystal yields about 30 ppg in the mash, about 14 as a steeping grain (due to diastatic conversion in the mash that doesn't happen in a steep situation)"
I had been told both that mashing wasn't needed, and that mashing was needed to get the most out of the crystal. I thought they were opposite, but it looks like both statements are true. Steeping works, but mashing converts extra sugars out of the crystal. Is that right? Will crystal mash out by itself, or is a base malt required for the enzymes?
You said, "As you can see, a very light Crystal yields about 30 ppg in the mash, about 14 as a steeping grain (due to diastatic conversion in the mash that doesn't happen in a steep situation)"
I had been told both that mashing wasn't needed, and that mashing was needed to get the most out of the crystal. I thought they were opposite, but it looks like both statements are true. Steeping works, but mashing converts extra sugars out of the crystal. Is that right? Will crystal mash out by itself, or is a base malt required for the enzymes?
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well the difference between steeping and mashing are the time and temp not the process because there basically the same, mashing is for a longer time at the same temperature, saturating the grain more and letting more sugar out while allowing the correct enzymes to emerge at that temperature. you make a point about having other fermentables in the mash to convert more sugar, I believe that to be true to get the most out anyway
all steeping really does is release flavor and very little sugar, thats why in the recipe editor your steeping grains will start at 35% efficiency
all steeping really does is release flavor and very little sugar, thats why in the recipe editor your steeping grains will start at 35% efficiency
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fermentation ? Thanks.
How much corn sugar should I add?
How much corn sugar should I add?
