Bottling From the Fermenter

[Daniel Parshley]

This post is inspired by the "Plaato V2 Valve Introduces O2" and the discussion of cold crashing and carbonation. I boiled up 5.5 oz of dextrose in 550 ml of distilled water, and put 10 ml in my 12 oz bottles and 20 ml in the 22 oz bottles, and filed directly from the fermenter to avoid O2 from a bottling bucket. Safale S-04 yeast was used to maximize yeast settling and to obtain a firm cake, and a full 15 days was used for fermentation/conditioning/settling . The resulting beer is much better but is taking significantly longer to carbonate (3 weeks). The BF forum has brought the O2 issue front and center. Yes, the beer is noticeably better from adding dextrose directly to the bottles and filling from the fermenter.

 

[RoadRoach]

I use a very long tube on my quick siphon, and pull from deep in the fermenter, just above the trub, letting gravity do it's thing and keeping my hands off it as much as possible. Laying a couple coils of the tube in the bottom of the bottling bucket and putting all the primer in on top of that, I get all but no splash or oxidation. Not saying you're wrong, but there is a way to do it with minimal splash/oxidation. I normally try to bring my fermenters up the night before I'm gonna bottle, and let them go ahead and warm up a little (a couple degrees different upstairs vs downstairs). If the air locks start bubblin' again, I let 'em sit another night, covering them up from light with something dark. The circulation that is inherent in letting it go down the tube and around the bottom of the bucket means no stirring to mix the primer into the beer. It keeps a slow swirl going the whole time I'm racking off the fermenter.

 

[Daniel Parshley]

I use a very long tube on my quick siphon, and pull from deep in the fermenter, just above the trub, letting gravity do it's thing and keeping my hands off it as much as possible. Laying a couple coils of the tube in the bottom of the bottling bucket and putting all the primer in on top of that, I get all but no splash or oxidation. Not saying you're wrong, but there is a way to do it with minimal splash/oxidation. I normally try to bring my fermenters up the night before I'm gonna bottle, and let them go ahead and warm up a little (a couple degrees different upstairs vs downstairs). If the air locks start bubblin' again, I let 'em sit another night, covering them up from light with something dark. The circulation that is inherent in letting it go down the tube and around the bottom of the bucket means no stirring to mix the primer into the beer. It keeps a slow swirl going the whole time I'm racking off the fermenter.

You have described what I have done since I started, with the exception of adding spigots to my fermenters and bottling buckets. Some CO2 is still coming out of solution after transfer to the bottling bucket and I would guess it does block some of the O2. Still, the idea of bottling straight from the fermenter was something I have been wanting to try. Perhaps less O2 is why it took a week or two longer to carbonate after bottling.

 

[RoadRoach]

You have described what I have done since I started, with the exception of adding spigots to my fermenters and bottling buckets. Some CO2 is still coming out of solution after transfer to the bottling bucket and I would guess it does block some of the O2. Still, the idea of bottling straight from the fermenter was something I have been wanting to try. Perhaps less O2 is why it took a week or two longer to carbonate after bottling.

Yeah, maybe. They need a little bit to work on the carbing sugar, but not more introduced during the racking process. Preferably the O2 still in suspension is from when you stirred in your yeast pitch. I get rough with mine, and even pour the wort into the fermenter from about 3 feet up to make sure ever bit of it splashes and aerates. The more you splash after fermenting, the more chances you have if pulling in air-borne bacteria and bad critters to join in with the yeast.

I asked my supplier, who also happens to be a beer judge, if it would be OK to put spigots on the fermenters for exactly the purpose you're describing. I thought he was going to faint. He vehemently recommended that I do not do that as it's just an invitation for bacteria, especially in a fermenter bucket. The spigots cannot be properly cleaned unless you disassemble and boil them on a regular basis, especially the plastic ones. You'll usually destroy the plastic spigots if you try to disassemble. Brew pot, that's fine, because it's going to get heated to boiling temps. Germs, good or bad, can't handle that. I have a stainless steel ball valve on my kettle to drain to the fermenters and use the kettle to help separate some of the chunky bits from the brew before I pitch. Some say that's taking away flavors, some say it's taking away things that will use the O2 that the yeast needs, some say it just doesn't matter. But beer judges appear to be similar to engineers. If you want 5 ONLY ways to do something, just ask 5 beer judges (engineers). My school of thought is, I'm making my beer for ME. Anyone else that doesn't like my beer doesn't have to drink it, and can bring their own. That just leaves more of my beer for me.

 

[GFHomebrew]

This post is inspired by the "Plaato V2 Valve Introduces O2" and the discussion of cold crashing and carbonation. I boiled up 5.5 oz of dextrose in 550 ml of distilled water, and put 10 ml in my 12 oz bottles and 20 ml in the 22 oz bottles, and filed directly from the fermenter to avoid O2 from a bottling bucket. Safale S-04 yeast was used to maximize yeast settling and to obtain a firm cake, and a full 15 days was used for fermentation/conditioning/settling . The resulting beer is much better but is taking significantly longer to carbonate (3 weeks). The BF forum has brought the O2 issue front and center. Yes, the beer is noticeably better from adding dextrose directly to the bottles and filling from the fermenter.

I just bottled 7 beers off my current batch of passionfruit saison I'm imagining that they should carb up pretty quick as the yeast are pretty fresh and recently active. I've not cold crashed it it's still sitting around ferm temp.

I'll do a side by side in a couple of weeks after theyve carbed and i keg the rest

Oh a side note I bottled off kegmenter was sitting at 10 psi I used its residual pressure to fill the seven bottles and I capped on the foam so little to no o2 will be present for carbonation.
Will be interesting to see if the yeast get the job done.
I'm guessing yes

 

[Daniel Parshley]

[QUOTE= .... I asked my supplier, who also happens to be a beer judge, if it would be OK to put spigots on the fermenters for exactly the purpose you're describing. I thought he was going to faint. He vehemently recommended that I do not do that as it's just an invitation for bacteria, especially in a fermenter bucket. The spigots cannot be properly cleaned unless you disassemble and boil them on a regular basis, especially the plastic ones. You'll usually destroy the plastic spigots if you try to disassemble. Brew pot, that's fine, because it's going to get heated to boiling temps.

I have been throwing all my tubing, plastic valves, and other small parts into PBW at ~160 F and so far have not had an infection. The plastic bottle filler was replaced with a food quality stainless steel one that breaks down completely.

 

[Nosybear]

Your supplier is technically correct; however, with good sanitation, spigots are not a problem. Been using them for years. Take them off and throw them in a diluted bleach for a while and good as new.

 

[RoadRoach]

Your supplier is technically correct; however, with good sanitation, spigots are not a problem. Been using them for years. Take them off and throw them in a diluted bleach for a while and good as new.

Yeah, that's where he and I kinda parted ways on the general process of beer making. After all, the giant fermenters in breweries rarely have a handle on them to pick them up, turn them upside down, and wash them. My first inclination was that ANYTHING that isn't properly cleaned and sanitized is going to be a problem. This is not a new science. But like anything with experts, if you want 5 different ONLY ways to do something, just ask 5 of the experts. I read, I try, I learn.

 

[Nosybear]

Yeah, that's where he and I kinda parted ways on the general process of beer making. After all, the giant fermenters in breweries rarely have a handle on them to pick them up, turn them upside down, and wash them. My first inclination was that ANYTHING that isn't properly cleaned and sanitized is going to be a problem. This is not a new science. But like anything with experts, if you want 5 different ONLY ways to do something, just ask 5 of the experts. I read, I try, I learn.

Actually if you ask five experts you should get one answer. Ask five YouTube U grads and you should get multiple answers.

 

[RoadRoach]

Actually if you ask five experts you should get one answer. Ask five YouTube U grads and you should get multiple answers.

I promise you, I'm probably as guilty of it as any four of my colleagues. See what happens when you ask 5 different engineers how to solve a problem, especially if that problem has never been encountered before.

 

[Nosybear]

I promise you, I'm probably as guilty of it as any four of my colleagues. See what happens when you ask 5 different engineers how to solve a problem, especially if that problem has never been encountered before.

Agreed, my sheepskin says "Engineer." But we are not talking about new problems, we are talking about old, established methods. By definition, no one is an expert in a problem that has not been previously encountered. The original question was spigots. I haven't used an auto-siphon in years but if I wanted to sell you one, I'd talk about the difficulty of sanitizing spigots.

 

[NorthWest Small Batch Brewing]

Agreed, my sheepskin says "Engineer." But we are not talking about new problems, we are talking about old, established methods. By definition, no one is an expert in a problem that has not been previously encountered. The original question was spigots. I haven't used an auto-siphon in years but if I wanted to sell you one, I'd talk about the difficulty of sanitizing spigots.

I moved to spigots years ago and i would NEVER return to an auto siphon. Spigots are so much more civilized lol