Best Bitter becomes an ESB and apparently aspires to be something even more

[Shady Lane Brewing]

So here's the recipe for the Timothy Taylor Landlord clone I brewed four days ago:

10 lbs Golden Promise
2.5 oz Black Malt
1 oz East Kent Golding 60 mins
1 oz Styrian Goldings 45 mins
1 oz Fuggles 15 mins
1 oz Styrian Goldings 10 mins
1 oz Styrian Goldings Whirlpool
Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire -- made a starter
Mashed at 152F for 60 minutes
5.5 gallons in the fermenter

The OG was 1.055 and, with an apparent attenuation of 72%, the FG should be 1.015. It's now at 1.007, which would be a whopping 87% attenuation. I took a hydrometer sample to make sure the Tilt was accurate. It was. I tasted it and, for just four days in, it's pretty good. No contamination that I can tell.

I subscribe to the philosophy that "we brew beer, not numbers,'' but I'm really curious about this one. I suppose I could have mashed at a higher temperature, and I also suppose that what my thermometer thought was 152F was actually lower than that. But 1.007 and the blowoff tube is still producing bubbles? Any thoughts?

 

[Sandy Feet]

I'm curious too. Did you put any sugar in that?
The only ESB I have tried is with the Fuller's yeast. It does not attenuate worth a shit, and that is what leaves the maltiness in it. I don't think I would be as crazy about a dry ESB. I like the balance between the malt and hops like what I got from my Altbier.
Having said that, I hope your experiment turns out well and you enjoy it.

 

[Shady Lane Brewing]

I'm curious too. Did you put any sugar in that?
The only ESB I have tried is with the Fuller's yeast. It does not attenuate worth a shit, and that is what leaves the maltiness in it. I don't think I would be as crazy about a dry ESB. I like the balance between the malt and hops like what I got from my Altbier.
Having said that, I hope your experiment turns out well and you enjoy it.

No sugar. I like maltiness, too, and I fear this is going to be Saharan.

 

[Megary]

Wyeast says 1469 typically attenuates between 67-71%. My experience with it is that it will get to 75%. Starts quickly, finishes quickly. Typical English strain.

87% is not in 1469's wheelhouse. Maybe they mislabeled the package.

 

[Dave Y]

I had this happen with Wyeast 1007 in my Alt. First of my modern era Alts hit at 1.012 next time out it went down to 1.007. Next time out I subbed Imperial Kaiser and got 1.010. To me the 1.007 Alt was still good with only a slight decrease in body. The 1.010 revision last time out with Imperial was right in the lane. I had started dropping the temp to keep it under control where previously I just let it run.

Sometimes the yeast overperforms.

 

[Minbari]

No sugar. I like maltiness, too, and I fear this is going to be Saharan.

Good ESB should finish a little sweet. That is gonna far too dry. Might still be good, but gonna be more of a pale

 

[Shady Lane Brewing]

Good ESB should finish a little sweet. That is gonna far too dry. Might still be good, but gonna be more of a pale

I know. I'm after the "why.'' I may never know.

 

[Minbari]

Check your thermometer. You might be right, if it is off. Lower mash temp would make a more fermentable mash.

Other possibility is that something got in the fermenter and helped.

 

[Shady Lane Brewing]

Check your thermometer. You might be right, if it is off. Lower mash temp would make a more fermentable mash.

Other possibility is that something got in the fermenter and helped.

It's also possible that I didn't put the thermometer in enough areas of the mash to get a thorough reading, though I think I did. I haven't had problems with it before. This might just be one of those where I shrug and hope it tastes good.

 

[Craigerrr]

There is a saying... if your mash temperature isn't right move the thermometer around until it is!

 

[Shady Lane Brewing]

There is a saying... if your mash temperature isn't right move the thermometer around until it is!

That could be what I did subconsciously!!!

 

[Craigerrr]

You can check your thermometer accuracy by checking it in boiling water, it should be 211.9F, and in ice water it should be 32.1

 

[Donoroto]

should be 211.9F

At sea level. I’m at 1100 ft and get about 209.

 

[Sandy Feet]

I measure strike water before the mash and mash temps after the mash. After the mash, if you have cut off your heat, the temps should be fairly even in the kettle.

 

[Minbari]

I do constant recirc.
Measure temp in kettle, coming out of kettle and coming out of herms.

Do i need to do all that, maybe not, but it seems to work

 

[Dave Y]

I do constant recirc.
Measure temp in kettle, coming out of kettle and coming out of herms.

Do i need to do all that, maybe not, but it seems to work

I'll bet you do! When I lift the grain basket from my anvil, the _kettle_ thermomter, at the bottom, can drop as much as 3 degrees in 30 seconds, typically 152 down to 149F. I do this to claim as much of the efficiency as I can, so I will
-stop recirc.
- lift malt pipe, let it drain. Maybe a minute?
-within 30 seconds I usually see a 2-3 degree temperature drop on the bottom of the kettle where the pipe is draining to, but also where the heating element is!
-lower the malt pipe, stir up the grains, re-affix the diffuser, lid and restart the pump
-resume recirculation. Ideally I'm done in about 2-3 minutes all in.

If I remember, next time out I'm going to use my thermometer to take some readings in the mash while my kettle happily reports 152. I know the middle of the malt pipe is going to be lower, but it would be interesting to see how much.

 

[J A]

I do constant recirc.
Measure temp in kettle, coming out of kettle and coming out of herms.

Do i need to do all that, maybe not, but it seems to work

I have my controller sensor in a tee fitting coming out of the HERMS. Since the element heats the water in the herms vessel there can be a substantial over-shoot if the system is using the temp in the tun. I monitor the grain bed temp but I don't consider it critical. Since the enzymes that I want to activate or denature are largely circulating with the mash liquor, I consider that temp to be most important.
If I'm doing straight infusion, I try to get the temp throughout the grain bed pretty consistent. I've set up a RIMS tube on my infusion tun so I'll be able to do a modified infusion with the option of recirculating to adjust temperature.

 

[Minbari]

I have my controller sensor in a tee fitting coming out of the HERMS. Since the element heats the water in the herms vessel there can be a substantial over-shoot if the system is using the temp in the tun. I monitor the grain bed temp but I don't consider it critical. Since the enzymes that I want to activate or denature are largely circulating with the mash liquor, I consider that temp to be most important.
If I'm doing straight infusion, I try to get the temp throughout the grain bed pretty consistent. I've set up a RIMS tube on my infusion tun so I'll be able to do a modified infusion with the option of recirculating to adjust temperature.

I do something similar. I use the temp on the kettle out and herms out to calculate heat.

Software actually compares the last 3 samples to get a trend to decide if more/less heat is needed. . Then it uses a modified PID that i wrote to apply PWM to the heating element

 

[J A]

I do something similar. I use the temp on the kettle out and herms out to calculate heat.

Software actually compares the last 3 samples to get a trend to decide if more/less heat is needed. . Then it uses a modified PID that i wrote to apply PWM to the heating element

I use a straight on/off controller and I've worked with the sysytem enough that it's calibrated pretty nicely. It ramps up plenty fast and holds very close to the set temp without any substantial swings up or down.

 

[TerryDowning]

At sea level. I’m at 1100 ft and get about 209.

I’m at 5000 ft 203 or so for me.