Agreed. Also I'm never going to rate a beer 5 stars unless it is one of the best beers I've ever had in my life. Nothing wrong with 3.5 and 4 out of 5 beers.
Anyone do the BJCP exams?
- Thread starter Hawkbox
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I don’t know if I ever mentioned the “French Onion Soup Stout” I had in a “Dead of Winter Stout” competition.
OMG. It gushed, and the entire room stank of onions. Once that was cleaned up, I asked the steward to bring the second bottle. Opened it up over a sink, it gushed.
The thing is- the brewer NAILED his intention. Cheesy, oniony, French onion soup with a stout base. It was gawd-awful.
The feedback was truthful- horrible for beer, but he did nail his objection quite well. I don’t remember the score, but he couldn’t have been surprised.
Second worst of the day was rosemary stout. It tasted like lamb roast. Meaty, rosemary, thick stout.
Honesty is the best policy but no need to be cruel. The score sheet reflected the flavor, texture, and drinkability (or lack of) for sure.
Depends on the definition of "cruel". If your beer tastes like "poopy diaper", I am going to write "poopy diaper". It is then up to the entrant whether they agree or whether they want to cry about it. In any case, I do provide suggestions for improvement... unless it doesn't need any improvement. I am also unafraid of scoring beers as high as like 45 or maybe even beyond, because like I said... not all beers can score in the 30s. If a beer has zero flaws, it has zero flaws. Please score it accordingly. Please.
Please do not be afraid to use the entire scoring range.
I do the same thing on Untapp'd. If it's one star, it's one star. If it deserves 5 stars, then by golly I give it 5 stars. Meanwhile I take any average scores from the masses for any IPA with grains of salt, as I do old styles from the 1990s like amber ale or cream ale or whatever. The average score of an average IPA always gravitates towards about 3.9 stars, and the cream ales will tend to score much lower like 3.4. In this way, I know that a cream ale that scores an average of 3.8 is a really fricking awesome cream ale, meanwhile an IPA that scores 3.7 is kind of a bad one. All things are relative, because human beings are morons, especially on average.
See, I told you I was cruel. Perhaps. But one thing is for sure either way: The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.
Please do not be afraid to use the entire scoring range.
I do the same thing on Untapp'd. If it's one star, it's one star. If it deserves 5 stars, then by golly I give it 5 stars. Meanwhile I take any average scores from the masses for any IPA with grains of salt, as I do old styles from the 1990s like amber ale or cream ale or whatever. The average score of an average IPA always gravitates towards about 3.9 stars, and the cream ales will tend to score much lower like 3.4. In this way, I know that a cream ale that scores an average of 3.8 is a really fricking awesome cream ale, meanwhile an IPA that scores 3.7 is kind of a bad one. All things are relative, because human beings are morons, especially on average.
See, I told you I was cruel. Perhaps. But one thing is for sure either way: The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.
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That will be a fun one to judge!
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Isn't that what this place is?
@Dave Y oh we beefin'...i will not accept the invitation to rant.
and then i did.
So i always give 5 stars for beers that i enjoy for several reasons.
1. it helps to slightly offset the morons who "dont like the style" 1-star
2. the 1-5 is a terrible setup for actually reviewing things, it is too polarizing and lacks granularity. 1-10 would be far better. but 1-5 is much easier to clickbait.
3. untappd encourages people to review everything no matter if they should be allowed to review.
the "i loved the beer" 4 stars review pisses me off. if you enjoyed it give it a 5 if you hated it give it a 1, but give reasons if you give either review.
Untappd reviews are complete garbage, Tiny Tina who doesnt like beer and gives everything but a shandy 1-star because beer is gross. has FAR to much sway on the overall score.
Yes I despise untappd. I am running an overall decent score, especially considering my non-fad styles. I have never talked to a professional brewer who actually likes untappd, it is generally hated by industry.
rant complete.
competition judging is far far better then untappd, but palate fatigue, luck, and personal preference play a disproportionate role in big competitions. its not really the judges fault, its the organizers mainly.
and then i did.
So i always give 5 stars for beers that i enjoy for several reasons.
1. it helps to slightly offset the morons who "dont like the style" 1-star
2. the 1-5 is a terrible setup for actually reviewing things, it is too polarizing and lacks granularity. 1-10 would be far better. but 1-5 is much easier to clickbait.
3. untappd encourages people to review everything no matter if they should be allowed to review.
the "i loved the beer" 4 stars review pisses me off. if you enjoyed it give it a 5 if you hated it give it a 1, but give reasons if you give either review.
Untappd reviews are complete garbage, Tiny Tina who doesnt like beer and gives everything but a shandy 1-star because beer is gross. has FAR to much sway on the overall score.
Yes I despise untappd. I am running an overall decent score, especially considering my non-fad styles. I have never talked to a professional brewer who actually likes untappd, it is generally hated by industry.
rant complete.
competition judging is far far better then untappd, but palate fatigue, luck, and personal preference play a disproportionate role in big competitions. its not really the judges fault, its the organizers mainly.
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I got stuck judging Lambics and such last year as the second judge cause we don't have enough and it was largely that approach. "I hate this beer with a passion but you absolutely nailed the style, congratulations!".
Weirdly, I don’t care for weiss biers at all, hefeweizen is so yucky to me that I will not willingly drink it. Even at Schneider Weisse itself in Bavaria, I grudgingly choked down all the different beers served with our huge tasting and meal. Not crazy about rauchbier either.
That makes me a great judge of those beers though- I judge strictly by the style guidelines unobjectively. Once, my friend who is like a Grand Master VIII or something ridiculous like that invited me to judge a competition with her, and she put me on IPAs because she knows that’s my favorite style. That was hard- there were some beers that I loved but really weren’t the perfect beer according to the style guidelines. I did both commercial beers for a Brewer’s Cup and homebrews for the BJCP homebrew comp.
I may love (or hate) a beer, but I do consider myself a fair and honest judge so take the guidelines seriously no matter what my preference is.
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I can't stand banana aroma or flavour so I am in the same boat. Doing some practice on Saturday with one of the local judges to train for the tasting the one I liked (Dunkel Weiss) was honestly scored the lowest of the group of samples because while I liked it the checkboxes weren't there.
Sure it is,.. ;-)
The best judges favor the subtle awesomeness of a well brewed light lager. Any idiot can love IPA or Belgians or sours or yadda yadda yadda.
It's all good. Yeah, the yaddas are great as well.
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That's what BJCP is all about: doing our best to remove that subjectivity aspect through education and certification. And a good deal of that exam is how to judge constructively and respectfully.I agree, someone has to tell a brewer when they did it wrong or they will do it wrong again the same way. OTOH, that same brewer shouldn't be entering something that has a finish akin to sanitizer in any competition. I've tasted a lot of these and brew exchange meetings, etc. That's a good venue for it because you're among locals, club members, perhaps friends who can not only critique, but provide guidance on how to correct the error(s). I wish I'd done something like that with my first extract kits, it would have sped me along a little quicker.
It is possible to constructively criticize respectfully. But yeah, the subjectivity aspect is the elephant in the room.
Hey, doesn't @Bigbre04 like to check the reviews in Untapp'd?
But until that unfortunate and inevitable(?) time when we get AI judging, it is the randomized part of the competition game to hopefully get your beer in front of that judge where the two just click.
