adding enzymes to wort Q

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by pazu, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. pazu

    pazu New Member

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    I am mulling over the addition of beano to my extract wort, with a hold period at 100F. I have to define this experimental hold duration, but do not have a good idea of how long it would take the enzymes in beano, namely Alpha galactosidase, invertase and probably others, to begin to affect the carbohydrates in the extract. It's a 6 gallon yield with OG of 1.056.

    Understood that adding beano is generally frowned upon as an additive to beer and for multiple good reasons but still, can anyone offer advise as to how long this hold period or time between 100F and 135F might need to be, in order to get some beano enzyme activity going in the wort without breaking all of it down?

    I want to raise my ABV a bit/lower calories a bit frankly, while avoiding risk of runaway enzyme activity in the ferment and bottles, by adding the enzyme in the wort boil briefly then denaturing it by increasing temp. Not sure that the beano will do anything at all in the wort actually.

    Thanks for any advise!
     
  2. LarryBrewer

    LarryBrewer Active Member

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    Kaiser did a brew with natural enzymes from the mash process to get a high attenuation:
    http://braukaiser.com/blog/blog/2013/02/02/kaipa2/

    I would get some standard ales under your belt before delving into this method, which is fairly advanced.

    I did taste a Beano beer once, and I wasn't too impressed.
     
  3. pazu

    pazu New Member

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    THank you for the link, his work is interesting. I have a plan worked out, pitching soon as possible. There will not be any active beano in the ferment. It will all be fine I am sure, just have to deal with the blowoff correctly. I have the 2 port cap for the carboy, I hope that proves sufficient to deal with it. Seems likely to happen. :D
     
  4. The Brew Mentor

    The Brew Mentor Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, how far are you trying to attenuate?
    With a healthy pitch and a controlled fermentation, you can exceed 80% attenuation which would get you to +/-1.011. That's pretty dry with an ABV of 6%

    I've never used Amylase enzyme even though I sell it. I was understanding it was used only in the fermentor?

    Brian
     
  5. pazu

    pazu New Member

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    Hey Brian. I'm going for the <. 50 cent, lower carb/calorie beer target. I'm trying to cheap out on buying reputable malt extracts, by inverting natural cane instead. Only 2 pounds, like 25% of the 6 gallon batch.

    The enzymes in Beano are Alpha galactosidase and invertase, possibly others. Not the more brew-friendly Amylase, which I've read will actually stop at some point. Alpha galactosidase in the ferment, is The Terminator of complex sugar bonds and evidently will break down anything and everything, to glucose & fructose. I'm a noob, proven, certified, artist not a scientist but that's my working understanding.

    I couldn't think of a reason why it wouldn't work, so I added 1/3 of each of the extracts/sugars, to my boil, at around body temperature, which is the temperature that Alpha galactosidase likes. I held there for 45 minutes then continued to rolling boil, added the remaining 2/3 of the extracts/sugars. It may do nothing at all.

    Supposedly the Alpha - g de-natures at 135F, so it should no longer be active at the ferment stage. So, 1/3 of my complex sugars should be somewhat more broken down due to the alpha galactosidase, though I have no control or reference in terms of, for instance, how much beano to use (I used 1 pill), how much alpha g is in the beano, how long the alpha g enzyme takes (I think it's pretty swift when it's working).

    The brew in question is still in the fermenters, one of which has slowed, and one that has not. They are looking good.

    I couldn't get the beer calculator to create a 6% ABV beer that was less than 185 calories. I had been mulling it over anyhow from some quick reading, so I went for trying something radical, using enzymes in the wort to try to get a lower calorie beer. How will I know how many calories are in the beer that I have brewed? I will have to find a calorimeter I suppose.
     
  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    If it breaks down everything, you're going to get a very thin, dry beer. If that's your goal, go for it but if you're looking for mouth feel, you need to keep those complex sugars.
     
  7. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Just occurred to me how you can determine the difference, assuming you already have a consistent brewing process: Brew a batch and split it, put the Beano in one and leave the other as a control. Taste when finished and see which you like. I'm betting you won't like the Beano version nearly as much, that it will be dry and have a very thin mouthfeel.
     
  8. pazu

    pazu New Member

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    Well, I'm betting with you if it comes down to betting, if that's ok :D I rather plan to dry hop...

    About the Beano, just to clarify I didn't put it in the fermentation at all, I put it into 1/3 of the pre-boil at body temp for 45 minutes. Then I proceeded to boil the life out of it, then I added the majority of the malt extract etc. after the enzyme was long boiled to death.

    I don't know enough about how enzymes work to be confident that they would do anything at all, the way I used them.

    That Beano should have been zero'd out before the pitch ever occurred in my case, and with those enzymes dead the remaining complex sugars are unaffected whereas in the cases that I've read about, it's been put in the ferment where it breaks down everything, so the yeast eats everything and the beer becomes hoppy ethanol I suppose, with no sweetness or mouth feel.

    In my case I should still have at least mild sugar and mouth feel because 2/3 of the wort never saw beano.

    But then, I added the yeast accelerator. That, I am a bit concerned about. It smelled bad... Like briney.

    If I knew then what I know now... Others advised as you have also, and I do not doubt all of your proven expertise in the matter. I may have pushed myself into a corner on this one, but factoring in all that I have learned and the help that I have had here at BF, I am still light years ahead. I love to tinker, though, and there's a chance that this beer will be just fine. I haven't given up on this beer yet, it smells great! Around 90 hours into the ferment. I have no way to taste it, though.

    Didn't you say that you taste your beer along the way NB? I could order a wine thief, but it would still be days to get it. Sterilize a ladle? Seems risky.
     
  9. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I use a wine thief to draw out the samples. One point: If you're not using a very high proportion of adjuncts such as sugar or unmalted grain, you likely don't need yeast accelerator.
     

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