2nd BrewDay - Dialing in and a few questions

[WheatBeerCH]

On today's menu was an American Pale Ale (American Pale Ale II Recipe - BeerCraftr's 1-Gallon Beer Recipes)

Struggled with low OG on the first brew, so made these adjustments:

1. milled grain a second time at home with cheese grater (better than nothing); it took a while so I didnt do a 3rd time
2. added 4oz pale malt to the recipe
3. split strike water into two (mashed in 7l; batch sparged in 2l)
4. squeezed the heck outta the BIAB

Observations:

1. pre-boil OG same as last time (American IPA Recipe - BeerCraftr's 1 Gallon Beer Recipes) --> 1.020 @ 141F = around 1.035 (?)
2. post-boil OG: 1.044 @ 75F
3. pre-boil volume: 8 litres
4. post-boil volume: 5.7 litres, I think

Questions:

1. i've got a 5 litre carboy and the recipe is for post-boil volume of 1.3 gallons = 4.9 litres. should i have a more intense boil next time since i have an extra .8 litres? and this would bump up the OG a bit too.
2. I filled the carboy up to a little under 4l. so is it normal for a recipe to have extra for hydrometer readings and losses? i put the remainder in a separate carboy to test a different yeast
3. there's quite a bit of trub in the main carboy. when measuring volume, this is of course included. so, i guess i will end up with about 3 litres of beer. Is that expected for a 5litre carboy?
4. recipe called to add last hops at the end of the boil. does this mean that i should stop the boil and throw in the hops? or does the hops need at least a few minutes boil time? how do you interpret this?

Thanks for any comments/suggestions!

 

[Over The Cliff Brewing]

You will definitely get better answers from the more experienced folks here but looking at the write up of the brew I would ask you what was your mash temps? Your OG seems a bit low. It called for 156F for 60 min. For question #4 those hops should be dropped in once the 60 min boil ends. Your heat source would be off at that point.

 

[SabreSteve]

On today's menu was an American Pale Ale (American Pale Ale II Recipe - BeerCraftr's 1-Gallon Beer Recipes)

Struggled with low OG on the first brew, so made these adjustments:

1. milled grain a second time at home with cheese grater (better than nothing); it took a while so I didnt do a 3rd time
2. added 4oz pale malt to the recipe
3. split strike water into two (mashed in 7l; batch sparged in 2l)
4. squeezed the heck outta the BIAB

Observations:

1. pre-boil OG same as last time (American IPA Recipe - BeerCraftr's 1 Gallon Beer Recipes) --> 1.020 @ 141F = around 1.035 (?)
2. post-boil OG: 1.044 @ 75F
3. pre-boil volume: 8 litres
4. post-boil volume: 5.7 litres, I think

Questions:

1. i've got a 5 litre carboy and the recipe is for post-boil volume of 1.3 gallons = 4.9 litres. should i have a more intense boil next time since i have an extra .8 litres? and this would bump up the OG a bit too.
2. I filled the carboy up to a little under 4l. so is it normal for a recipe to have extra for hydrometer readings and losses? i put the remainder in a separate carboy to test a different yeast
3. there's quite a bit of trub in the main carboy. when measuring volume, this is of course included. so, i guess i will end up with about 3 litres of beer. Is that expected for a 5litre carboy?
4. recipe called to add last hops at the end of the boil. does this mean that i should stop the boil and throw in the hops? or does the hops need at least a few minutes boil time? how do you interpret this?

Thanks for any comments/suggestions!

1) if your targeting 4 litres going into the fermenter there are a few ways to go about it. A) you could boil longer or more vigorously or B) you could adjust your pre-boil volume based on your boil-off rate. You figure out your boil off rate simply by observing your pre-boil and post boil volumes. However much volume boils off in an hour is your rate. Plug it into your equipment profile and it'll make the quick water requirements tool on here more accurate. Also yes if you take a wort with the same amount of fermentable sugars (which don't boil off) and reduce the volume by nearly a litre your OG will increase.
2) if you had 4.9 liters and your target was 4 I would still put it all in the fermenter as long as I reasonably had room for it and then just adjust my volumes next time. You do want some head space in the fermenter so maybe 4.9 is too close but I'd go as full as it can get till you're just a little worried and then just go with a blowoff tube instead of an airlock. With most recipes the volume refers to the amount placed in the fermenter not the amount packaged, you will have losses due to trub and readings but you'll learn about how much and will be able to adjust your volumes to adjust if you're set on packaging a certain amount.
3) sounds reasonable but can't tell you cause I've never done a batch that small. Some of that will depend on your equipment. For 5 gallon batches in a bucket with a flat bottom I was packaging right around 4 gallons. With my new 6 gallon fermonster and new kettle I was under on volume with only about 4.75 gallons going in but I still packaged nearly 4.5 gallons. I credit the fermonster's bottom being raised in the center for that. Also for such small batches a refractometer might be helpful. It uses much smaller samples than a hydrometer, literally just drops.
4) what @Frankenbrewer said. Hops at 0 minutes or the end of the boil are often referred to as flameout additions. Put out the flame and then add them immediately then.

Take my advice for what it is, I'm only about 6 months and a handful of brews ahead of where you are, but these are just my thoughts.
One last peice of friendly advice because I've seen you in a few different threads, if you're going to be around in the community (welcome by the way!!) maybe pick a screenname. Brewer #whatever is just so generic and it's hard to differentiate between those accounts and remember who asked what. If we know you by a screenname it's easier to remember your posts and know more where you are in your journey when giving advice. Again no pressure, just a friendly suggestion but might be helpful if you plan on sticking around.

 

[WheatBeerCH]

You will definitely get better answers from the more experienced folks here but looking at the write up of the brew I would ask you what was your mash temps? Your OG seems a bit low. It called for 156F for 60 min. For question #4 those hops should be dropped in once the 60 min boil ends. Your heat source would be off at that point.

Hi, the mash temps started a bit up and down...I had placed the kettle in an oven heated to 170F 5 mins, then turned off

strike water initially at 163F
8h35 mashin at 152F ... so i turned the heat back on until it hit 156F
8h50 157F
9h10 155F
9h35 got tired of measuring i think ...

Thanks for the hops tip. I added it at like 2 minutes left, so they got a bit cooked. I know now for next time!

 

[WheatBeerCH]

1) if your targeting 4 litres going into the fermenter there are a few ways to go about it. A) you could boil longer or more vigorously or B) you could adjust your pre-boil volume based on your boil-off rate. You figure out your boil off rate simply by observing your pre-boil and post boil volumes. However much volume boils off in an hour is your rate. Plug it into your equipment profile and it'll make the quick water requirements tool on here more accurate. Also yes if you take a wort with the same amount of fermentable sugars (which don't boil off) and reduce the volume by nearly a litre your OG will increase.
2) if you had 4.9 liters and your target was 4 I would still put it all in the fermenter as long as I reasonably had room for it and then just adjust my volumes next time. You do want some head space in the fermenter so maybe 4.9 is too close but I'd go as full as it can get till you're just a little worried and then just go with a blowoff tube instead of an airlock. With most recipes the volume refers to the amount placed in the fermenter not the amount packaged, you will have losses due to trub and readings but you'll learn about how much and will be able to adjust your volumes to adjust if you're set on packaging a certain amount.
3) sounds reasonable but can't tell you cause I've never done a batch that small. Some of that will depend on your equipment. For 5 gallon batches in a bucket with a flat bottom I was packaging right around 4 gallons. With my new 6 gallon fermonster and new kettle I was under on volume with only about 4.75 gallons going in but I still packaged nearly 4.5 gallons. I credit the fermonster's bottom being raised in the center for that. Also for such small batches a refractometer might be helpful. It uses much smaller samples than a hydrometer, literally just drops.
4) what @Frankenbrewer said. Hops at 0 minutes or the end of the boil are often referred to as flameout additions. Put out the flame and then add them immediately then.

Take my advice for what it is, I'm only about 6 months and a handful of brews ahead of where you are, but these are just my thoughts.
One last peice of friendly advice because I've seen you in a few different threads, if you're going to be around in the community (welcome by the way!!) maybe pick a screenname. Brewer #whatever is just so generic and it's hard to differentiate between those accounts and remember who asked what. If we know you by a screenname it's easier to remember your posts and know more where you are in your journey when giving advice. Again no pressure, just a friendly suggestion but might be helpful if you plan on sticking around.

1. If I boil longer, that will change the IBU's, right? In that case, its a good idea to adjust pre-boil volume and not affect IBU/taste as much. or, i suppose i could try a more vigorous boil.

2. i left 20% headspace to avoid painting the ceiling. i constructed a blowoff anyway.

3. yeah, i will adjust accordingly next batch for the carboy volume

4. got it for the hops at flameout

So how have your brews turned out? I imagine you are satisfied since you keep pluggin away?

Thanks for the friendly advice - I wholeheartedly agree and just did not even notice until you pointed out that my alias was generic.

 

[WheatBeerCH]

By the way, coming back to the mash temps, I think that I fell below the target of 156F because I didnt do a full volume BIAB mash (I mashed in 7 litres and sparged in 2litres, though the recipe called for mash in 9 litres)...so next time, should i bump up the initial strike water temp, say 5 degrees?

strike water initially at 163F
8h35 mashin at 152F ... so i turned the heat back on until it hit 156F
8h50 157F
9h10 155F
9h35 got tired of measuring i think ...

 

[Josh Hughes]

As for strike water yes, the calculator does well on here. I’d say unless you wanted it lower abv or did well with it lower than 156, 152 is good actually.

 

[SabreSteve]

Hi, the mash temps started a bit up and down...I had placed the kettle in an oven heated to 170F 5 mins, then turned off

strike water initially at 163F
8h35 mashin at 152F ... so i turned the heat back on until it hit 156F
8h50 157F
9h10 155F
9h35 got tired of measuring i think ...

Thanks for the hops tip. I added it at like 2 minutes left, so they got a bit cooked. I know now for next time!

You probably lost some of the oils from the hops in the boil but 2 minutes probably isn't going to kill you. If you still end up with good hop aroma then it's alright. Even if you don't it's the taste that really matters.

1. If I boil longer, that will change the IBU's, right? In that case, its a good idea to adjust pre-boil volume and not affect IBU/taste as much. or, i suppose i could try a more vigorous boil.

2. i left 20% headspace to avoid painting the ceiling. i constructed a blowoff anyway.

3. yeah, i will adjust accordingly next batch for the carboy volume

4. got it for the hops at flameout

So how have your brews turned out? I imagine you are satisfied since you keep pluggin away?

Thanks for the friendly advice - I wholeheartedly agree and just did not even notice until you pointed out that my alias was generic.

If you boil the hops longer it will affect the IBUs but boiling longer before you add the hops won't. So no, I wouldn't extend my boil after already boiling and making my hops additions but if I noticed my pre-boil volume was high I might do extend my boil to get closer to my target but you'd still add your 60 minute additions with 60 minutes remaining and so on. Also keep in mind though that your wort will have a sightly higher volume at 212F than 68F so keep that in mind.
My brews have mainly gone on, had some struggles (check out the you know you did it wrong thread sometime but don't let it scare you away). Most of my beers have come out great though. Even if they didn't come out to expectation they still tasted good. I've had a few bottles get infected (make sure you're cleaning and sanitizing properly!) and had to dump them. I've also had trouble regulating mash temp on a couple of brews. I have a hoppy blonde ale that is really kinda dry but I don't hate it. I have a porter I bottled a week ago that tasted real promising coming out of the fermenter that I plan on trying tonight. Definitely hasn't always been easy but it's definitely rewarding. I was at a point in like November or December where I had ingredients for brews through February but was still wanting to create more recipes. I'll currently need to order ingredients for March and beyond but I'm planned up through may and currently trying to decide what style I want to go with for June. I might be borderline obsessed

 

[Herm brews]

Welcome @WheatBeerCH, a couple of my first brews were from BeerCrafter recipes. Before I got my new 5.5-gallon kettle, I was using a 3-gallon kettle that fit nicely in my oven. To maintain temperature during the 60 minute mash, I would set my oven on its “WARM” setting, and keep the kettle in that warm oven. Every 15 minutes, I stirred the mash, checked mash temperature, and took refractometer readings. Since my new kettle doesn’t fit in the oven, I have to keep it insulated during the mash - for the time being, I am wrapping the kettle with a fleece blanket and a fleece pullover.

As far as extending your boil time to hit OG and volume targets, you need to plan that in advance so that you maintain the hops addition schedule called for in the recipe, or your ibu’s will be out of whack. So, for example, if you boil for 75 minutes, your 60 minute hop addition will be dropped in 15 minutes after the boil starts. Once you have your boil off rate figured out and entered in an equipment profile, you should be able to get your water requirements dialed in. If you aren’t already doing so, try using the recipe editor on this site.

 

[Nosybear]

Welcome @WheatBeerCH, a couple of my first brews were from BeerCrafter recipes. Before I got my new 5.5-gallon kettle, I was using a 3-gallon kettle that fit nicely in my oven. To maintain temperature during the 60 minute mash, I would set my oven on its “WARM” setting, and keep the kettle in that warm oven. Every 15 minutes, I stirred the mash, checked mash temperature, and took refractometer readings. Since my new kettle doesn’t fit in the oven, I have to keep it insulated during the mash - for the time being, I am wrapping the kettle with a fleece blanket and a fleece pullover.

As far as extending your boil time to hit OG and volume targets, you need to plan that in advance so that you maintain the hops addition schedule called for in the recipe, or your ibu’s will be out of whack. So, for example, if you boil for 75 minutes, your 60 minute hop addition will be dropped in 15 minutes after the boil starts. Once you have your boil off rate figured out and entered in an equipment profile, you should be able to get your water requirements dialed in. If you aren’t already doing so, try using the recipe editor on this site.

What Herms is saying is that extending the boil to hit your gravity involves a trade-off: Extending the boil increases (slightly - utilization doesn't rise quickly abouve about 45 minutes) bitterness and may convert your flavor hops into bittering hops, if you choose to extend after adding them. I personally wouldn't do it to make up for a few gravity points. If you choose to extend the boil to hit your gravity, you are affecting the final flavor of your beer. That ends up making it a brewer's choice, you can either accept the lower ABV and slightly more dilute flavors or you can choose to up the bitterness and hit your original gravity. This is why I tend to preach approaching brewing using system thinking: Your choice now can affect several things downstream of the choice.

 

[WheatBeerCH]

Welcome @WheatBeerCH, a couple of my first brews were from BeerCrafter recipes. Before I got my new 5.5-gallon kettle, I was using a 3-gallon kettle that fit nicely in my oven. To maintain temperature during the 60 minute mash, I would set my oven on its “WARM” setting, and keep the kettle in that warm oven. Every 15 minutes, I stirred the mash, checked mash temperature, and took refractometer readings. Since my new kettle doesn’t fit in the oven, I have to keep it insulated during the mash - for the time being, I am wrapping the kettle with a fleece blanket and a fleece pullover.

As far as extending your boil time to hit OG and volume targets, you need to plan that in advance so that you maintain the hops addition schedule called for in the recipe, or your ibu’s will be out of whack. So, for example, if you boil for 75 minutes, your 60 minute hop addition will be dropped in 15 minutes after the boil starts. Once you have your boil off rate figured out and entered in an equipment profile, you should be able to get your water requirements dialed in. If you aren’t already doing so, try using the recipe editor on this site.

The BeerCraftr recipe calls for 9 litres water. Is it possible that, given my equipment and boil off rate, I would need to start with less? This time, I had an extra .8 litres. So, all other things being equal, should I have started with .8 litres less? Are you saying that the recipe editor would help me figure this out?

I had an extra carboy and threw the remainder in there. The smaller volume carboy is much clearer a day and a half later or so...

During the day, the big one cleared up....

There's plenty of fermentation bubbling, but Krausen --> zero ! All the scum on top was from the foam after aeration. I took off the blowoff rig because, shamefully, there are no fireworks to be seen ...

 

[SabreSteve]

The BeerCraftr recipe calls for 9 litres water. Is it possible that, given my equipment and boil off rate, I would need to start with less? This time, I had an extra .8 litres. So, all other things being equal, should I have started with .8 litres less? Are you saying that the recipe editor would help me figure this out?

I had an extra carboy and threw the remainder in there. The smaller volume carboy is much clearer a day and a half later or so...

During the day, the big one cleared up....

There's plenty of fermentation bubbling, but Krausen --> zero ! All the scum on top was from the foam after aeration. I took off the blowoff rig because, shamefully, there are no fireworks to be seen ...

The tools on here can tell you your water needs provided you keep an accurate equipment profile. You'll only figure that out by brewing and recording the results

 

[Herm brews]

The BeerCraftr recipe calls for 9 litres water. Is it possible that, given my equipment and boil off rate, I would need to start with less? This time, I had an extra .8 litres. So, all other things being equal, should I have started with .8 litres less? Are you saying that the recipe editor would help me figure this out?

I had an extra carboy and threw the remainder in there. The smaller volume carboy is much clearer a day and a half later or so...

During the day, the big one cleared up....

There's plenty of fermentation bubbling, but Krausen --> zero ! All the scum on top was from the foam after aeration. I took off the blowoff rig because, shamefully, there are no fireworks to be seen ...

Note that I cannot see your photos.
I suggest sticking with the recipe. Are you using your kitchen stove? If yes, is it gas or electric? Are you able to achieve a vigorous boil? Maybe you’re not boiling vigorously enough? Keep at it, don’t get discouraged, and remember that this hobby is FUN!
I use my kitchen stove, it is gas with a “POWER BOIL” burner that can get wort from 140*F to boiling in about 25 minutes without even turning the flame into that power boil range.

 

[WheatBeerCH]

Note that I cannot see your photos.
I suggest sticking with the recipe. Are you using your kitchen stove? If yes, is it gas or electric? Are you able to achieve a vigorous boil? Maybe you’re not boiling vigorously enough? Keep at it, don’t get discouraged, and remember that this hobby is FUN!
I use my kitchen stove, it is gas with a “POWER BOIL” burner that can get wort from 140*F to boiling in about 25 minutes without even turning the flame into that power boil range.

Actually i've got induction. it can even span across two eyes on the stovetop, so i can bump up the vigor of the boil a bit.

 

[Herm brews]

Both of my kettles are induction ready, though they have only been used on a gas stove. It might take a few rounds to figure out the sweet spot on the boil (vigorous enough, but not too vigorous), so keep working on the same recipe (or similar) until you start to get close to the same numbers as called for by that recipe. Be observant, take good notes, make use of calculators like those offered here on the site, and you should find your way.

 

[Donoroto]

I took off the blowoff rig because, shamefully, there are no fireworks to be seen ...

Not even slightly shameful. Just like you, we are all here to learn, and no mistake* is large enough to be a problem. I exclusively use blowoff tubes and have never 'needed' it, all my fermentations were tame.

*Not that your actions constitute a mistake.

 

[SabreSteve]

Not even slightly shameful. Just like you, we are all here to learn, and no mistake* is large enough to be a problem. I exclusively use blowoff tubes and have never 'needed' it, all my fermentations were tame.

*Not that your actions constitute a mistake.

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. This is what can happen when you need one and don't use it:

Honestly if you have adequate headspace you probably don't need one with most yeasts but nothing wrong with playing it safe. I use one now anytime I have a higher gravity wort or use certain yeasts (like some British yeasts or German Wiezen yeasts). I attach the blowoff to the center post of the airlock. After 3-4 days if things are looking pretty slow I take it off and fill the airlock.

 

[Herm brews]

@SabreSteve “Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.”
Words of wisdom right there.

 

[Craigerrr]

Experience!
The best teacher!
Well, I'm sure Hish is a pretty good teacher too