Quality of modern extract kits

[Brewer #64496]

Hi all,

UK brewer here. I am in a position where brewing a batch without needing the full brew day time would be convenient right now, so it's got me thinking about kits.

I haven't brewed with a pre-hopped liquid malt extract for years, but always remember what some refer to as the homebrew twang.

I was never 100% sure whether this was something to do with the quality of the kits/ingredients or if it could be a result of methods on my side with untreated water.

The last kit that I made in around 2017 still had the twang, despite me applying my new all-grain brewing practices regarding sanitation and water treatment to the batch, which led me to believe that it is indeed the kits themselves that contains something that produces the off-flavour that I am quite sensitive to.

My question for you today is, has anyone tried the newer kits from companies like Mangrove Jacks? Their new recipe kits available on Malt Miller look great, but I do wonder whether you would see the same twang in these beers.

Going one step further, there are also fresh wort kits available - I wouldn't expect to see any problems with these but would be interested to hear what your experiences have been.

It would be great to hear what your experiences have been, and whether you think new LME kits have improved over the years.

Thanks all

 

[Craigerrr]

I think you can make great beer with extract. The first things that comes to mind for me are, do you have temperature control for fermentation, and are you able to use water that does not have chlorine in it, or at least use a campden tablet to eliminate the chlorine.
The other factors would be for steeping grains, if any, to be be fresh, and the same for the yeast.

 

[Brewer #64496]

I think you can make great beer with extract. The first things that comes to mind for me are, do you have temperature control for fermentation, and are you able to use water that does not have chlorine in it, or at least use a campden tablet to eliminate the chlorine.
The other factors would be for steeping grains, if any, to be be fresh, and the same for the yeast.

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have all of these available to me. I always pick up an extract twang though from the British pre-hopped extract kits.

I've not used steeping grains with them before, as they are self contained wort kits.

May I ask which kits or methods you've used before with success?

 

[Brew Cat]

Well most extract kits these days aren't pre hopped extract
I would stay away from those kits that still use them

 

[Craigerrr]

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I have all of these available to me. I always pick up an extract twang though from the British pre-hopped extract kits.

I've not used steeping grains with them before, as they are self contained wort kits.

May I ask which kits or methods you've used before with success?

Except for my first batch a number of years ago, I have only brewed all grain, and partial mash.
As opposed to buying a pre hopped kit, maybe the best path would be to use DME, steeping grains, actual hops, and yeast that hasn't been in a hot delivery truck for an unknown period of time (Amazon for isntance).

 

[Craigerrr]

Well most extract kits these days aren't pre hopped extract
I would stay away from those kits that still use them

I would agree

 

[Donoroto]

Non-hopped kits aren’t known to have that twang. The downside is you need to boil (or nearly boil) the liquid a bit

 

[Gnarishnakh]

What I found helps is to add my LME to my Steeping water and add some base grains to my steeping pouch, and hold it at 150°F for 30 minutes. The base grains will convert any remaining starches in the LME and it seems to bring down the "twang" after about 2 weeks of conditioning.

 

[Minbari]

Hi all,

UK brewer here. I am in a position where brewing a batch without needing the full brew day time would be convenient right now, so it's got me thinking about kits.

I haven't brewed with a pre-hopped liquid malt extract for years, but always remember what some refer to as the homebrew twang.

I was never 100% sure whether this was something to do with the quality of the kits/ingredients or if it could be a result of methods on my side with untreated water.

The last kit that I made in around 2017 still had the twang, despite me applying my new all-grain brewing practices regarding sanitation and water treatment to the batch, which led me to believe that it is indeed the kits themselves that contains something that produces the off-flavour that I am quite sensitive to.

My question for you today is, has anyone tried the newer kits from companies like Mangrove Jacks? Their new recipe kits available on Malt Miller look great, but I do wonder whether you would see the same twang in these beers.

Going one step further, there are also fresh wort kits available - I wouldn't expect to see any problems with these but would be interested to hear what your experiences have been.

It would be great to hear what your experiences have been, and whether you think new LME kits have improved over the years.

Thanks all

My opinion, it's like making instant coffee. Still coffee, just not as good.

 

[Brewdomestix]

UK here. I think I know what the twang is from my earlier days of extract kit making. This reduced as I progressed upwards in the quality/pricing of ranges. Some of the naming of the ranges is misleading and they are not of as a high a quality as they sound. So it can be hit and miss. Top end of Muntons is quite safe but further down I was far from impressed including a stout which was truly awful compared to a reliable one in a lower price range.

To reinforce @Craigerrr : since treating water with Camden tablets this has made a noticeable difference even to most of my favourites from the lower end of the market.

As for improvements I have only tried one Mangrove Jack beer kit which was a Bavarian Wheat and I found excellent including using a specific quality yeast - counter to sadly a major issue with the budget ranges that come with a standard yeast across the whole range which should absolutely be avoided when it comes to their lagers. I have, however, achieved good results with lower priced kits switching out the standard yeast for a named one which does work well for those lager kits.

I can't fault any of the Ritchie's Festival range tried (some openly named and accurate clones) which come with pellets for dry hopping (and my introduction to hops). Having read some glowing reviews for a few of them I was still somewhat surprised to discover how genuine they were. I would also choose their 'Simply' range to point a beginner to especially the Ginger Beer.

Both MJs and Ritchies do a decent variety of good quality cider kits.

The latest interesting development I have seen in extract kits is called Grainfather but I haven't tried any of those.

I am currently transitioning towards all grain with LME and dry grains and 'getting' it right from the getgo but will probably drop back into those favourite kits from time to time.

 

[Donoroto]

Good beer can be made with extract. Award-winning, even.

 

[Minbari]

Good beer can be made with extract. Award-winning, even.

While true, only ever be as good as the guy who did the mashing for you.

 

[Sandy Feet]

My 2cents:
I probably did not find the right extract kit, but I made much, much better beer all grain. A BIAB brew day is not much longer at all than an extract kit with steeping grains, and in my opinion, with better results. We can all have respectful arguments over this, but that is my opinion.

 

[NorthCoastBrewer]

Good beer can be made with extract. Award-winning, even.

And a beer (brewed with DME) that scores 38 in regional competition probably tastes good as well.

 

[Donoroto]

My 2cents:
I probably did not find the right extract kit, but I made much, much better beer all grain. A BIAB brew day is not much longer at all than an extract kit with steeping grains, and in my opinion, with better results. We can all have respectful arguments over this, but that is my opinion.

Ah yes. Extract, versus Extract Kit.

 

[Mallonee's Malt]

Haven't tried a Mangrove Jack kit, but the big issue I had with extract kits (US, but European or Australian kits) was the yeast. Either the yeast was outdated or significantly underpitched. When I used a packet of "real" yeast these mostly came out well.

I also wonder about the homebrew "twang". Homebrew always seems to have an identifiable smell, and to a certain extent, taste. I couldn't put my finger on what that was until I opened a mason jar of starter that from my fridge that I abandoned months ago. When I opened it to discard it I realized that was the smell from "homebrew" and it was old yeast. Many of us do tend to bottle up too much yeast with out brew. New yeast is often delicious. Old yeast (autolyzed) has that smell and flavor.

 

[Brew Cat]

I'll say the quiet part out loud
Most extract kits that come out bad is probably more because a lot of extract brewers are new brewers and don't put in the effort to learn how to brew by making their own mash. Extract is a tool and can be used in making good beer if used in conjunction with grains to build body and complexity. When extract is made I assume they are just doing a simple infusion then vacuum concentrate the wort, package it and sell it. Think about that. As far as yeast most of the better kits don't come with yeast because of the cost of yeast. Yeast has gotten expensive. It would be better to purchase a quality yeast and harvest to use across 2 or 3 brews