Yeast Attenuation - Safale - 05

[Chip99]

I'm not exactly a beginner but it's hard to judge when you jump to the next level. I brew one-two batches per month and have been for I think about two years. All styles. Started with an all in one until that burned out and have been using an igloo for mash, a foundry brew kettle for the boil, a heat exchange coil and ice bath for cool down, and the German style fermenters.

Favorites are IPA's and Porters. I have become better at monitoring my SG's, pre and post boil, and FG using a hydrometer (versus refractometer - which I have but did not want to go through the calibration exercise). I realize many things affect alcohol production so I will give my ordinary parameters in my mancave environment. Fermentation temp = 72 degrees. VERY consistent temps through the ferment.

On my last three batches my post boil gravity has been right at 1.070. Always use Safale -05 yeast, standard package size for a 5 gallon batch. Always ferment 14 days and then either keg or bottle depending. I don't even look to see if fermentation has stopped. TOO much crap for me.

Anyway, my FG's almost ALWAYS seem to be right at 1.020. ALWAYS. A lot of recipes I see show FG between 1.011 and 1.014.

So finally my questions, 1) am I not fermenting long enough? 2) do I need to add more yeast? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I like to keep my brews about 6%-7% but only with great mouth feel and not too dry from adding late additions like DME. Being able to ferment to 1.011 might help with that. Thanks... Chip

 

[Brew Cat]

Hard to say but I'd be careful bottling at .020
Mash temp ?
If you're not checking your gravity for complete fermentation it's probably not done
Sorry it's to much crap to do but you're just guessing and you're asking us to guess now

 

[Minbari]

A few things.

You are risking bottle bombs by not verifying that fermination is finished. 2 weeks and done is not a good way to it.

Yes, fermination might not be done, but there are other things that effect it. What temp do you mash at? Higher than 152F and you will create a more dextrose mash. This means that less sugar will ferment and it will finish higher.

 

[Craigerrr]

I would definitely expect US-05 to get down around 1011 or 1011.
1070 is a pretty high OG
One recipe I have that is a 6.2% IPA has on OG of 1058, last batch did get to 1011.

What temperature are you mashing at, and are you using any acid, or acid malt to buffer pH in your lighter colored beers?

 

[J A]

Attenuation starts in the mash - proper pH and definitely good temperature control to get a lot of fermentable sugars rather than less fermentable dextrins. If you're not careful, it's easy to overshoot the temp in a cooler mash tun and that would denature your beta amylase too soon.

You should probably pitch more than one packet on an .070 wort and it couldn't hurt to make sure that the wort is fairly oxygenated, even with dry yeast.

Your fermentation temp of 72 degrees may be on the warm side. If you're quite sure that the actual wort is staying that temp, it's not too bad but if your ambient temp is that, the wort is hitting higher temps. Either way, that should lead to complete and fast fermentation (though maybe with some slightly off flavors) but the danger is that it can go crazy for the first 24 hours and blow out and stall, especially with a light pitch.

Two weeks should very easily ferment out most any beer with US-05 but if it's too much trouble to even check to see when fermentation is actually slowing and stopping, you may be involved with the wrong hobby. You're obviously taking at least one hydro reading at some point...just take more than one so you can track what's happening. If you see that airlock activity or krausening is slowing down after a couple of days, take a reading and see what's going on. I'd wager that it's at 1.020 within the first 36 hours after the start of active fermentation. If it's just sitting there, you have the option of attempting to re-start the stalled fermentation by rousing the yeast in the fermenter, adding more yeast, etc. If you have a stall, you can pull a pint of beer (with some yeast), shake it or stir it to re-aerate it and leave it sitting in a loosely covered jar overnight to see if it ferments further. That'll tell you whether you've got a yeast problem or a mash problem

If that's "too much crap" to do, you'll have to just drink your under-attenuated beer and be happy with it.

 

[Sandy Feet]

1.020 with grain sounds high. With extract, I would not be surprised. 72 is a bit on the high side as well, but it might work with S-05. I would definitely pitch more than 1 if this is 5 gallons. I normally pitch 2 in an ale with OG much lower than that. It might be overkill, but I will pitch 4 in a lager.
You probably need to look at your mash temps and grain bill if 1.020. Mash lower to dry it out. You can also try going 70 minutes instead of 60 to convert a little more.
I also let it go for two weeks. I take a OG and FG reading, and that is it. However, if I'm getting 1.020 beer, it is intentionally sweet. I will not use extract any more. If I want alcohol and to dry out the beer, especially in a Belgian or using a Fuller's yeast, I'll add a little sugar to the mash.

 

[west1m]

If you really don't want to keep pulling samples to see and checking to see if you have reached FG , get a Tilt. It will show you the progress.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

Out of the gate, safale 05 will give you stone fruit (Peach)notes on first generation. Especially that warm.
Posting a recipe will help with diagnosing why the final OG is high. As noted above, there are multiple reasons why this could be happening.
Id also be using a yeast calculator to determine the amount necessary to properly ferment without stress.
Cheers
Brian

 

[Brew Cat]

If you really don't want to keep pulling samples to see and checking to see if you have reached FG , get a Tilt. It will show you the progress.

or a $18 refractometer
cheap and simple not a lot of crap involved
don't even need to worry about the numbers just as long as they are the same over a few days

 

[Dave Y]

My first thoughts are:
1) Did you clean and sanitize the fermenter and anything else that came into contact with the wort post boil? How?
2) water source, and report on the water?
3) what mash; share the recipes. If you have a lot of "less fermentable" grains in the grist, the yeast is going to have a hard time finishing out to proper attenuation.
4) what temperature are you (really) mashing at? Not what the kettle says on the thermometer read out, what is the middle of the grain bed temp?

S05 is pretty flexible, will ferment cold, to warm - IIRC it's around 55-75F. @J A has a good suggestion about a big pitch for a 1.070 batch of wort, another option, albeit with a more cr@p penalty- do a starter culture with the yeast. Queue the howls of protest at not needing to do a starter culture with dry yeast...

I'll also second the Tilt hydrometer recommendation, mainly because of my tech addiction and they do help.

 

[Bigbre04]

1.070 is a big beer. IF you are shooting for 6-7% with decent attenuation, you should be closer to 14-15.5p(1.057-1.063).

As was stated above, if you are at 72f ambient, you will likely get much hotter with the fermentation.

You might really consider using Voss or a kviek yeast. they are super fast and flexible. While being very temperature tolerant.

most likely you are running your mash way too hot and not getting the small sugars that you are expecting. even then, 1.020 is really high for a stout or a big dark beer.

choose one variable at a time.
1--get a long thermometer and check your mash temp at different places in the mash to be sure that you are good on your mash temp. I run most everything at 149f because i know that my mash temp is very inconsistent due to the height of my grain bed vs the temp probe. my bottom may read 149 while the top is closer to 145. for stouts or things that i want a little residual sugar on, i usually run those at 151 or 153. those temps will leave more sugar at the end of fermentation, but will still be a clean ferment.

2--next i would try to track your fermentation temps...check it every 6 hrs and just write it down for the first 2 or 3 days. this will give you really important info. at the cost of just poking your head in and checking the temp. IF your temps are spiking really high, you could be cooking off your yeast and having it stall out. IF that is happening you would really benefit from voss or kviek. a solution you could look at is using a big tub and setting your fermenter into it, the tap water would act like a heat sink and could help control your temps.

3--next i would consider over pitching. or atleast using the calculator to see how much you need. you are at roughly 17p which on my system would be a 7.7-8.2% beer. Sugar is toxic, so the higher you go the more you need to baby your yeasties. nutrient and overpitching should help a lot.

4--confirming your pitching temp would also be a good idea. your best fermentation will come from knocking out a few degrees F below your target fermentation temp(for a 68f target i shoot for 65-66f) and let the yeast warm itself up before the jackets kick on.

share your recipes and we can also take a look at those, you could be using too much colored malt. i made a where i shared my data, us 05 is very similar to apex San Diego yeast. you can see my fermentation times and data.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/apex-san-diego-yeast.18186/

@Dave Y howls howls howls #beefin'

 

[Dave Y]

share your recipes and we can also take a look at those, you could be using too much colored malt. i made a where i shared my data, us 05 is very similar to apex San Diego yeast. you can see my fermentation times and data.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/apex-san-diego-yeast.18186/

@Dave Y howls howls howls #beefin'

 

[Chip99]

1.070 is a big beer. IF you are shooting for 6-7% with decent attenuation, you should be closer to 14-15.5p(1.057-1.063).

As was stated above, if you are at 72f ambient, you will likely get much hotter with the fermentation.

You might really consider using Voss or a kviek yeast. they are super fast and flexible. While being very temperature tolerant.

most likely you are running your mash way too hot and not getting the small sugars that you are expecting. even then, 1.020 is really high for a stout or a big dark beer.

choose one variable at a time.
1--get a long thermometer and check your mash temp at different places in the mash to be sure that you are good on your mash temp. I run most everything at 149f because i know that my mash temp is very inconsistent due to the height of my grain bed vs the temp probe. my bottom may read 149 while the top is closer to 145. for stouts or things that i want a little residual sugar on, i usually run those at 151 or 153. those temps will leave more sugar at the end of fermentation, but will still be a clean ferment.

2--next i would try to track your fermentation temps...check it every 6 hrs and just write it down for the first 2 or 3 days. this will give you really important info. at the cost of just poking your head in and checking the temp. IF your temps are spiking really high, you could be cooking off your yeast and having it stall out. IF that is happening you would really benefit from voss or kviek. a solution you could look at is using a big tub and setting your fermenter into it, the tap water would act like a heat sink and could help control your temps.

3--next i would consider over pitching. or atleast using the calculator to see how much you need. you are at roughly 17p which on my system would be a 7.7-8.2% beer. Sugar is toxic, so the higher you go the more you need to baby your yeasties. nutrient and overpitching should help a lot.

4--confirming your pitching temp would also be a good idea. your best fermentation will come from knocking out a few degrees F below your target fermentation temp(for a 68f target i shoot for 65-66f) and let the yeast warm itself up before the jackets kick on.

share your recipes and we can also take a look at those, you could be using too much colored malt. i made a where i shared my data, us 05 is very similar to apex San Diego yeast. you can see my fermentation times and data.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/apex-san-diego-yeast.18186/

@Dave Y howls howls howls #beefin'

Thanks, very helpful post. The common thread through all of the replies (that I think applies directly to my situation) is mash temp. I'm mashing too high! Since moving from all in one setup to igloo for mash I've been starting my mash higher (say 158) and it is losing maybe 4 degrees (to 154) after 60 minutes. I didn't have an understanding of the different sugars produced at various temps of the mash.

I was afraid that starting at 152 that dropping to 148 at the end I would be getting less efficiency. Based on many of the replies that is not the case.

Trying a batch today and I will target initial mash temp at 152 (five gallons of RO water). I also do a batch sparge where I use about 185 water to get to 170 and let that rest for about 10-15 minutes before draining (3 gallons of RO water).

I get about 3.5 gallons of wort from the initial mash and almost another 3 gallons from the batch sparge. About 6.5 gallons pre-boil. After boil I use a pump and heat exchange system to get my wort down to about 68 degrees before I pitch.

We'll see how changing the mash temp works out and then I may use some of the other yeasts recommended as more forgiving at higher temps. My fermenter just sits in a dark corner of my mancave where I keep the temp about 70-72 degrees.

Thanks to all for the comments... Chip

 

[Sandy Feet]

"I was afraid that starting at 152 that dropping to 148 at the end I would be getting less efficiency. Based on many of the replies that is not the case."
It is the opposite. A 148 mash will yield more fermentable sugars, but I believe most of the conversion is done early in the mash.
I'm lucky with the big kettle in that I don't lose much heat. I do put the lid on with the heat off and cover with blankets.

 

[Chip99]

"I was afraid that starting at 152 that dropping to 148 at the end I would be getting less efficiency. Based on many of the replies that is not the case."
It is the opposite. A 148 mash will yield more fermentable sugars, but I believe most of the conversion is done early in the mash.
I'm lucky with the big kettle in that I don't lose much heat. I do put the lid on with the heat off and cover with blankets.

So maybe I should shoot for 150 to start? Will I still be okay if it drops to 146 by the end of the mash?

 

[Sandy Feet]

152 is a good place to start, take measurements, and learn. Cover it up well and get a handle on where you are at the end.

 

[Chip99]

152 is a good place to start, take measurements, and learn. Cover it up well and get a handle on where you are at the end.

If/when switching to the Voss yeast can you still pitch it dry? Or need to rehydrate? Chip

 

[Minbari]

So maybe I should shoot for 150 to start? Will I still be okay if it drops to 146 by the end of the mash?

Hell, i start @ 146F and step mash up to 152.

 

[Chip99]

Hell, i start @ 146F and step mash up to 152.

I would have a hard time doing that in a cooler... Chip

 

[Sandy Feet]

Can't help with the Kveik. I'm not a fan of what I have tasted from others, so I don't use it.
You probably do want to think about a cheap, used refrigerator or chest freezer with an Inkbird controller to help with fermentation temps though.