Brewing "non alcohol" or n/a beer

[Dave Y]

So I have a newcomer to our circle of friends and he does not drink alcohol (anymore). Unfortunately, he's the "outlier".
Anyone have any direct experience trying to produce a n/a beer and if so, how did it go?

He does drink the Heineken n/a beer - which really isn't bad. I was thinking something like a 70 shilling ale.

I routinely provide beer to many of our friends when they're over and it would be nice to have an option for the new guy.

 

[Limey]

I know that when you cook with alcohol of any kind - the heat of the cooking process drives off the alcohol - so I wonder if heating beer to above the evaporation temp for the alcohol and holding it there for a while would drive if off and leave a N/A "beer"?

 

[Dave Y]

I know that when you cook with alcohol of any kind - the heat of the cooking process drives off the alcohol - so I wonder if heating beer to above the evaporation temp for the alcohol and holding it there for a while would drive if off and leave a N/A "beer"?

This is what the internet lore says and, as we all know, if it's on the internet it has to be true !

I believe I saw 173F referenced.

 

[J A]

I've been wondering about this, too. These days I always try to keep some NAs around so everyone has an option and I enjoy one myself now and then. I think the evaporation thing is the best bet for homebrewers. The only real problem is being able to test reliably. You'd have to trust your methods and measurements to be sure it's all gone. Leaving a little alcohol behind might be fine for someone who's "drinking less" or "not having any tonight" but for someone who's serious about recovering or who's a designated driver, even a little may be problematic.
I'm going to look into it. Fermentis has a dry NA yeast and there are other options, as well.

 

[Limey]

... I think the evaporation thing is the best bet for homebrewers. The only real problem is being able to test reliably. You'd have to trust your methods and measurements to be sure it's all gone.

Good point! I am assuming that taking gravity readings through the process would be the way to do it - but I'm not sure!

 

[J A]

Good point! I am assuming that taking gravity readings through the process would be the way to do it - but I'm not sure!

Gravity changes in a couple of ways. Taking sugar out of suspension lowers gravity. Adding alcohol lowers gravity. Removing alcohol should make gravity go back up after it's removed. Knowing what the gravity should be could be a tricky calculation.
Now, if you distilled the alcohol into a measurable amount of liquid with a measurable gravity, you'd know exactly how much alcohol and water you had removed and could calculate the alcohol left in the original liquid. Actually, that sounds like the perfect excuse to set up a small distillation system.

 

[Craigerrr]

I have heard of boiling post fermentation to drive of the alcohol. Probably easier to have commercial N/A beer on hand for your friend, bu I am interested to see where you go with this!

 

[Dave Y]

Fermentis has a dry NA yeast and there are other options, as well.

good info!

I have heard of boiling post fermentation to drive of the alcohol. Probably easier to have commercial N/A beer on hand for your friend, bu I am interested to see where you go with this!

I was thinking that, but it's the principle of the matter. The guy married into our friend circle, so I want to give this a go. The Heineken is 0.5% ABV and he is good with that - I confirmed.

Plus I owe him, kind of.
Years ago, my wife browbeat me into going to a wedding I did not want to attend. Her friend was a controlling shrew, which I made known but she kept on me and I relented on one condition: "I'm no longer obligated to attend any wedding, forever, deal?" she agreed.

So, last May my new buddy gets married in NJ, comes out to TX where they hold another ceremony for family and friends. I was compelled to attend this "party". Only it was a wedding. I asked my other friend to confirm, and it was unanimous - vows exchanged, the whole 9 yards.

So, in July I claimed my prize. had the wife drop me off SAI airport to head up to Waco for some car parts, and I would 'get a ride back'. All of which was true, I just got a ride back in my new Mustang Dark Horse.

So I figure the least I can do is try my hand at making the guy a beer.
My wife hates that car

 

[Minbari]

That method will work, but it has to be done post fermentation. It will be oxidized to all hell. Can't imagine it being good

 

[Limey]

I just came across this about brewing low alcohol beer and thought it may be appropriate to this issue!

 

[J A]

That method will work, but it has to be done post fermentation. It will be oxidized to all hell. Can't imagine it being good

Doesn't boiling drive out oxygen (and CO2, for that matter)? Why would boiling have the effect of making the beer oxidized?

 

[west1m]

I remember making alchol from some old homemade wine once. I don't think I had to get all the way to a boil.
Couldn't you just raise it to about 200F for a short while to clear the alchol? If covered it will condense back to the pot, that is how I collected it , ice on the upsidedown lid and a coffee cup inside to catch the condensate (alcohol).

 

[J A]

I remember making alchol from some old homemade wine once. I don't think I had to get all the way to a boil.
Couldn't you just raise it to about 200F for a short while to clear the alchol? If covered it will condense back to the pot, that is how I collected it , ice on the upsidedown lid and a coffee cup inside to catch the condensate (alcohol).

True. Never gets to a boil. Still unclear how heating to evaporate the alcohol would oxidize the beer as @Minbari mentions.

 

[Limey]

Well - I "Googled" it! Apparantly there are two basic methods:

Vacuum Distillation: Alcohol is evaporated from the finished beer by heating it under a vacuum. The low pressure allows alcohol to evaporate at a lower temperature, which can help preserve flavor.
Membrane Separation (Reverse osmosis): The beer is forced under pressure through a semipermeable membrane. The membrane filters out the alcohol and water, leaving the larger flavor molecules behind. The beer is then rehydrated with water.

There are more sophisticated methods, but they are just modifications of these two systems. Looks like we weren't far off with the heating to drive off the alcohol method!

Those of you who have reverse osmosis filters could be guinea pigs and give it a try?

 

[Dave Y]

obviously the easier method for us not in the commercial sphere would be a "boil" off, but the implications for flavor are not insignificant. I'm wondering if a small whirlpool hop addition during or at the end of this process might help.

my best guess on this specific method would be to
complete the brew and fermentation. Pull aside the experimental portion of the batch. This is where I think a 70 shilling ale would work well as there isn't a whole lot of alcohol to eliminate.

Back to the sanitized kettle to heat to ~175 and hold there. Add in a token whirlpool hop.
hope for the best.

The pasteurization though...
I'd like to try without this step, maybe burst carbonate for a day or 2 and serve.

I have to admit the fermentation method looks to be a more precise method, but a bit more labor intensive.

I read up on the r/o method, not sure I want to put my water filtration system through that Plus, there is quite a bit of waste from r/o filtration.

Doesn't boiling drive out oxygen (and CO2, for that matter)? Why would boiling have the effect of making the beer oxidized?

VGQ

I suppose the cool down and transfer period and activity? instead of going a fermenter to make beer, it would have to be t/f to a keg, carbonated and cold crashed ASAP.

 

[Zambi]

I'm just wondering...
Had a couple beers in the heat, so I consider them low alcohol..
But
How about a standard process for mash and boiling. Low volume.
Then adding water before fermentation to target 0.5-1.0% alcohol.
I made a 2-3 % beer by accident by having the wrong crush on my grains. But it was tasty anyway.
I just don't know how far you can go

 

[Minbari]

True. Never gets to a boil. Still unclear how heating to evaporate the alcohol would oxidize the beer as @Minbari mentions.

It literally takes minutes to oxidize.

I have not done this experiment, personally. But not willing to ruin 5gal to find out

 

[Donoroto]

Those of you who have reverse osmosis filters could be guinea pigs and give it a try?

The RO filters we use would leave just pure water. Certainly alcohol free, but free of everything else, including minerals, flavors and everything not water

 

[J A]

It literally takes minutes to oxidize.

I have not done this experiment, personally. But not willing to ruin 5gal to find out

Certainly wouldn't be necessary (or even desirable) to do it with 5 gallons. It would be super simple to transfer a couple of pints of beer to suitable vessel, heat it to temp, siphon it into a plastic bottle and slap a carb cap on it, pressure it up and chill it down. There won't be oxygen in the vessel because the off-gassed CO2 will blanket the top of the beer and as long as you can transfer it pretty calmly, it shouldn't take on any excess O2. Yes, it's more susceptible to oxidation while it's not carbonated but I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work just fine. It would also be possible to bottle condition the beer by adding the right priming sugar amount and letting it sit. That would leave a small amount of alcohol but something like .25% to .5%. Not much but not nothing. It would be acceptable to many or most NA drinkers.
Any NA beer would be more susceptible to secondary infection since the whole reason beer evolved in the first place is that the alcohol helps keep it safe to consume.

 

[Donoroto]

Certainly wouldn't be necessary (or even desirable) to do it with 5 gallons. It would be super simple to transfer a couple of pints of beer to suitable vessel, heat it to temp, siphon it into a plastic bottle and slap a carb cap on it, pressure it up and chill it down. There won't be oxygen in the vessel because the off-gassed CO2 will blanket the top of the beer and as long as you can transfer it pretty calmly, it shouldn't take on any excess O2. Yes, it's more susceptible to oxidation while it's not carbonated but I don't see any reason that it wouldn't work just fine. It would also be possible to bottle condition the beer by adding the right priming sugar amount and letting it sit. That would leave a small amount of alcohol but something like .25% to .5%. Not much but not nothing. It would be acceptable to many or most NA drinkers.
Any NA beer would be more susceptible to secondary infection since the whole reason beer evolved in the first place is that the alcohol helps keep it safe to consume.

I agree that it will be perfectly fine, but the air convection from the hot liquid and evaporating alcohol will move any CO2. There won’t be any kind of CO2 blanket. Even a light puff of air from your mouth will blow any CO2 away easily.