I need peace of mind or to prepare for the worst

Nosybear said:
60 millionths of a meter per second.... At last, something I can outswim.
Click to expand...
Having worked in a micro lab, I know just how fast one bacteria cell can reproduce in a nutrient-rich environment like wort. One cell can become a sizable colony, grow, and move quickly. I think the point being discussed is sanitation and whether bacteria can move. Yes, bacteria can move/colonize in a spigot. Then there is the subject of anaerobic and aerobic bacteria (with or without O2), and gram positive and gram negative bacteria, but we can save those for another day.
 
Nosybear said:
Are any of those of interest to brewers? I know there are swimming microbes but have never heard of any in relationship to beer spoilage.
Click to expand...
For brewing industry, beer spoilage bacteria have been problematic for centuries. They include some lactic acid bacteria such as Lactobacillus brevis, Lactobacillus lindneri and Pediococcus damnosus, and some Gram-negative bacteria such as Pectinatus cerevisiiphilus, Pectinatus frisingensis and Megasphaera cerevisiae.
 
Daniel Parshley said:
Having worked in a micro lab, I know just how fast one bacteria cell can reproduce in a nutrient-rich environment like wort.
Click to expand...
That's the biggest problem, bacteria reproduces @ 10 times faster than yeast. So even when a brewer is diligent about cleaning and sanitizing, just one little oversight and a guy gets burnt. Once oxygen is gone and the alcohol gets above 2% in the beer, yeast has the upper hand. That's why short lag times are beneficial.
 
But we never achieve complete sterilization.... I understand that a single cell is all it takes but it's a single cell in a very hostile environment. My one infected batch out of hundreds has been due to unpasteurized strawberries. An engineer with no microbiological experience, I can't imagine I've just been lucky over the three hundred or so batches. Diligence is warranted but the OP's fear, I don't think so. A leak moving outward is very unlikely to result in an infected beer. Once the environment is anaerobic and acidic, not to mention alcoholic, bacterial reproduction is mostly suppressed. So to the OP's point, he likely has not ruined his beer via this leak. Hypotheticals aside, the beer will most likely be fine.
 
Nosybear said:
But we never achieve complete sterilization....
Click to expand...
True. It's almost impossible to create a sterile environment and it is unlikely the leak would cause an infection.

But I have been burned following all the right procedures only to find I got an infection, two brews in a row. I figured out it was a vinyl hose, it was soaked in StarSan as I had in the past, but it wasn't enough to reduce the bacteria count to a manageable level. There was no indication that the hose was the problem prior to pitch, no dirt, no smell, nothing. Since then I have changed my procedure, and anything that is not stainless steel get first cleaned spotless, soaked in a bleach/vinegar solution, rinsed and then gets Starsan. No more problems since then.

The yeast are always in a competition with other microbes, so pitch rates, pH at pitch, pitch temperatures among other things will give the yeast the ability to grow quickly, remove the oxygen and produce alcohol to inhibit microbe growth. Basically the brewer uses the natural defenses of the yeast to keep bacteria in check.
 
Nosybear said:
But we never achieve complete sterilization.... I understand that a single cell is all it takes but it's a single cell in a very hostile environment.
Click to expand...
Forgive my reference to a single cell. You will likely always have far more than a single bacteria cell in every batch. In the lab, we count single bacterial cells to determine how many in a sample. A complete ferment also helps by reducing nutrients so time for yeast to cleanup is a good thing.
 
So I'm guessing that, on a practical level, the OP has little to worry about? My "bacteria can't swim" comment means that he has more to worry about from the bacteria and wild yeasts already in the fermentor - and they're always there - than contamination from the leak, in other words, not meant literally.
 
Hopefully, no newbs will read this and accept it as Gospel, but, in my 13 years of brewing beer, if there's one thing I've discovered, you damn near need to try to infect a beer. Granted, where I live, we don't have termites or fleas, so this observation may well be due to our environment. By no means do I advocate, or make light of the importance of good cleaning and sanitizing practices, but sometimes, do wonder what level is really necessary.
 
I'm fairly obsessive about cleaning and sanitizing, reducing opportunities to let something into my wort that shouldn't be allowed in.... One infected batch due to unsanitary strawberries over 300 batches is a fairly good track record. I've tasted enough infected homebrew in my time to know that infections are possible and fairly frequent among some brewers. Reasonable precautions: Keep it clean, sanitize it before use, those seem to work well at our scale.
 
I've had my fair share of not quite right batches of swill that's for sure. Dont skimp on the basics and keep your kettle covered once wort drops to ferm temp.
Its comming onto summer here and unlike @BOB357 there seems to be an never ending line up of mircoorganisms, insects, plant pollen, DOG HAIR that wants to jump into my lovely sweet wort lol!

I say STAY OUT you BEER theiving BA@#tards this beers mine!:D:D
 
BOB357 said:
Hopefully, no newbs will read this and accept it as Gospel, but, in my 13 years of brewing beer, if there's one thing I've discovered, you damn near need to try to infect a beer. Granted, where I live, we don't have termites or fleas, so this observation may well be due to our environment. By no means do I advocate, or make light of the importance of good cleaning and sanitizing practices, but sometimes, do wonder what level is really necessary.
Click to expand...
I dunno, but I've been burnt by it. Maybe it was just bad luck, but it wasn't super obvious. It really sucks to put all that work into a beer and just dump it. I've had 2-3 infections in 17-18 years, I guess it a decent track record. My goal is zero from now on.
 
About 13 years here and zero infections. The only dumper I've had dumped itself when a wort chiller hose popped and overflowed the kettle, leaving most of the dilute wort all over the ground. I was inside when it happened and wasn't aware of it until wading through the results.
 
I had literally mold growing on top of one of my early batches and with some caution I was able to recover even it. I've had some beers I don't like but it's been because of bad choices on my end rather than infections.

I'm pretty diligent with my cleaning but I would imagine I could cause panic attacks in some people.
 
Trialben said:
I've had my fair share of not quite right batches of swill that's for sure. Dont skimp on the basics and keep your kettle covered once wort drops to ferm temp.
Its comming onto summer here and unlike @BOB357 there seems to be an never ending line up of mircoorganisms, insects, plant pollen, DOG HAIR that wants to jump into my lovely sweet wort lol!

I say STAY OUT you BEER theiving BA@#tards this beers mine!:D:D
Click to expand...

I hear you Ben!
I got an open air kitchen, lots of wind and dust (inclusive of dust devils) and high heat most of the year.
Plus 2 Jack Rascals :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Copyright © 2007-2024 Brewer's Friend, Inc. - Send Feedback - Terms - RSS Feed - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Back
Top