Late Sugar Addition in Primary Option

[Meatwad]

I know this has been discussed to some degree before but I'd like to inquire about having an option to designate a fermentable to primary/secondary instead of just a "Late Addition". See attached photo for area I'm talking about. In this case, the sugar additions are split (half in boil, half in primary after a few days).

 

[Yooper]

We have that in beta right now! If you want to take a peek and see what you think, it’s at beta.brewersfriend.com.

 

[Meatwad]

We have that in beta right now! If you want to take a peek and see what you think, it’s at beta.brewersfriend.com.

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Thanks! Look like it works as it should for primary/secondary additions. Now my next question might be out of scope:

I use the "ending kettle volume" for all of my batches to incorporate kettle volume losses so all of my fermentables are based on the higher value rather than the fermenter volume. Is there a way to get the sugar additions to be based on a fermenter volume (to get the correct gravity point increase) or is there a number manipulation in the "fermenter" batch size that I can incorporate?

It may take adding a "volume" field next to the "late addition" vessel so that it calculates the necessary gravity points. I tried to swap to "fermenter" batch size using my pre and post-boil but it changes the OG and FG so it appears there's no manipulation outside of adding a field.

 

[Pricelessbrewing]

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Thanks! Look like it works as it should for primary/secondary additions. Now my next question might be out of scope:

I use the "ending kettle volume" for all of my batches to incorporate kettle volume losses so all of my fermentables are based on the higher value rather than the fermenter volume. Is there a way to get the sugar additions to be based on a fermenter volume (to get the correct gravity point increase) or is there a number manipulation in the "fermenter" batch size that I can incorporate?

It may take adding a "volume" field next to the "late addition" vessel so that it calculates the necessary gravity points. I tried to swap to "fermenter" batch size using my pre and post-boil but it changes the OG and FG so it appears there's no manipulation outside of adding a field.

I think what you're asking for is doable as-is but let me get back to you in little bit, I need to re-read this after I finish my coffee.

 

[Meatwad]

I think what you're asking for is doable as-is but let me get back to you in little bit, I need to re-read this after I finish my coffee.

Thanks. I'll make it more concise. I do 6.75 gal batches (ending kettle volume) in order to rack 5.5 gal to the fermenter. Since I use the ending kettle volume the software calculates sugar additions using that volume (when in reality I'm adding x amount of sugar to 5.5 gal rather than 6.75 gal). If I try to change to fermenter volume I have to swap to 5.5 gal, which raises the OG of the recipe to scale to the smaller volume.

 

[Pricelessbrewing]

Okay so I think I follow.

Right now your recipes are set to target: Kettle, with 80% kettle efficiency (mash efficiency), with a postboil volume of 6.75 gallons, and a batch size of 5.5 gallons.

The best thing for the scenario of fermentables being added to fermenter is to use target: fermentor, and change the efficiency from 80% (kettle) to 65% brewhouse. 65 = 80 * 5.5/6.75.

This should keep the OG the same, you might have to make some small adjustments to using brewhouse efficiency instead temporarily, since currently the live version does not apply efficiency to late additions for sugar. This will be corrected soon in the update for late additions and improved gravity formulas.

Then you can set one sugar addition to kettle, which will increase the postboil gravity by 59.8 total points, and the OG by 48.8 points (accounting for 1.25 gallons of wort lost at kettle transfer).

Then set the other sugar addition to fermenter, which will increase your ABV as if the OG was 59.8 total points higher, without actually changing the OG.

 

[Meatwad]

Okay so I think I follow.

Right now your recipes are set to target: Kettle, with 80% kettle efficiency (mash efficiency), with a postboil volume of 6.75 gallons, and a batch size of 5.5 gallons.

The best thing for the scenario of fermentables being added to fermenter is to use target: fermentor, and change the efficiency from 80% (kettle) to 65% brewhouse. 65 = 80 * 5.5/6.75.

This should keep the OG the same, you might have to make some small adjustments to using brewhouse efficiency instead temporarily, since currently the live version does not apply efficiency to late additions for sugar. This will be corrected soon in the update for late additions and improved gravity formulas.

Then you can set one sugar addition to kettle, which will increase the postboil gravity by 59.8 total points, and the OG by 48.8 points (accounting for 1.25 gallons of wort lost at kettle transfer).

Then set the other sugar addition to fermenter, which will increase your ABV as if the OG was 59.8 total points higher, without actually changing the OG.

Thanks for the help! I'll use brewhouse efficiency for the recipes with fermenter sugar additions. I really enjoy the software!