Competition Question

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Brewer #49306

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Has anyone entered the same beer in two different categories in the same competition? I am thinking about doing so. I brewed a Märzen and it seems to be a bit of a tweener. It’s a tasty Mäzen but a little light in color and perhaps flavor, which puts it on the high end of a Fest Beer. The idea is to see which style if either the judges think it is more true to.
 
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Brewer #49306 said:
Has anyone entered the same beer in two different categories in the same competition? I am thinking about doing so. I brewed a Märzen and it seems to be a bit of a tweener. It’s a tasty Mäzen but a little light in color and perhaps flavor, which puts it on the high end of a Fest Beer. The idea is to see which style if either the judges think it is more true to.
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I have been there. I understand what you mean. Why not try it. Label them for each catagory I bet you get 2 completely different reviews. Looks tasty.
 
Brewer #49306 said:
Has anyone entered the same beer in two different categories in the same competition? I am thinking about doing so. I brewed a Märzen and it seems to be a bit of a tweener. It’s a tasty Mäzen but a little light in color and perhaps flavor, which puts it on the high end of a Fest Beer. The idea is to see which style if either the judges think it is more true to.
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It happens all the time.
 
I'm planning on having me and a buddy enter the same beer in a few competitions and see what we get back. My results are so variable I think it's useless but if we get scores back that are roughly the same at least we know they're consistent.

I've thought about doing multiple categories a couple times as I haven't really been sure where a beer fit.
 
Hawkbox said:
I'm planning on having me and a buddy enter the same beer in a few competitions and see what we get back. My results are so variable I think it's useless but if we get scores back that are roughly the same at least we know they're consistent.

I've thought about doing multiple categories a couple times as I haven't really been sure where a beer fit.
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I had an interesting experience with my Maerzen last year. I entered it into three competitions with the following results: Gold, Gold, a score of 24. I'm studying for BJCP now and have judged a few competitions and can see how it happens: In the case of the 24, the judge was judging my beer against a beer brewed in his brewery, not the guidelines. So you will get variability, it's inevitable. But it's an interesting experiment! Keep in mind, though, that the bottles may be handled differently after you submit them, that unless all the competitions are on the same day, the beers will be different ages, the position in the flight makes a difference, particularly in more intense beer styles.... All said, there's lots of variability in competition and it can't be helped.
 
Oh I understand that variables can change. Hence why I'm aiming at multiple competitions to try and get a baseline.

At this point unless something about the coming season changes my mind I'll likely stop competing because the information is useless to me when it's that variable. If I get a 42 and an 18 do I change the beer because I got an 18 or do I keep doing it because I got a 42?
 
I have enter the same beer in different categories and won with both. I have enter the same beer in the same category with a different sub category (American lager and Cream Ale) and won. The beer needs to be solid is all.

As far as getting consistent judging, good luck. If you get a more experienced judge you got a shot at consistency. I find the less experienced judges seem to have a goal to find something wrong with a perfectly good beer. Some of the worst comments were from novice judges. One of my favorite was the judge got " a little astringency in the aroma". I knew right then that was a waste to send that beer in. I have gotten to the point where I glance at the score sheet when I get them back and I rarely save them. It's the medals that count, baby.
 
Assuming I keep doing it that's likely what I'll be doing. Brief glance and medal count. I have sheets scored by our education director that are contradictory and condescending, so I don't really have any strong desire to read any more of her reviews.
 
I have generally gotten somewhat consistent results when entering the same beer in multiple competitions. One exception was an IPA that I way over built for competition,to much dry and keg hopping in my opinion. It got a 26 in California a 28 in Wisconsin and a 48 in Texas. The Texans judging must have been high. The beers I enter usually end up within a few points of each other in different competitions.
 
Hawkbox said:
Oh I understand that variables can change. Hence why I'm aiming at multiple competitions to try and get a baseline.

At this point unless something about the coming season changes my mind I'll likely stop competing because the information is useless to me when it's that variable. If I get a 42 and an 18 do I change the beer because I got an 18 or do I keep doing it because I got a 42?
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Depends on who you believe. I adjusted the recipe of my Marzen based on the 26 and was disappointed, screwed up the recipe!
 
My main issue is the Doppelbock I was doing I don't like the style in the first place but my wife does. So it's damned hard to tell if I screwed it up or not.
 
Nosybear said:
I had an interesting experience with my Maerzen last year. I entered it into three competitions with the following results: Gold, Gold, a score of 24. I'm studying for BJCP now and have judged a few competitions and can see how it happens: In the case of the 24, the judge was judging my beer against a beer brewed in his brewery, not the guidelines. So you will get variability, it's inevitable. But it's an interesting experiment! Keep in mind, though, that the bottles may be handled differently after you submit them, that unless all the competitions are on the same day, the beers will be different ages, the position in the flight makes a difference, particularly in more intense beer styles.... All said, there's lots of variability in competition and it can't be helped.
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Yes for sure vmbut a great 40+ beer shouldnt get a 24o_O! And thats a 24 averaged across the table? Surely someone seated there scored it more correctly...

But once a beer leaves the keg transportation could turn a great beer average.
 
Trialben said:
Yes for sure vmbut a great 40+ beer shouldnt get a 24o_O! And thats a 24 averaged across the table? Surely someone seated there scored it more correctly...

But once a beer leaves the keg transportation could turn a great beer average.
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We were tasting world-class beers last night and some of them had been mishandled. Lots of skunk flying around that room! When we judge in pairs, we score individually, then reach a consensus. So 24 was the consensus score, not an average. My story about my Maerzen was the same. I don't know what happened to the beer when it left my basement but two people who didn't have a clue about whose beer it was tasted a beer that had been hauling in 40's and scored it a 26. Key is what they said about it. 26 is either flawed or missing major elements of the style. Read the comments, taste your beer as objectively as possible and see if you agree with them.

And in the last competition, I entered a Dampfbier, giving the descriptions as required by entry procedures. The steward did not read the description to the judges so the judges, unsure what to judge it as, judged it as a Gose. A great beer got a 24. Another guy I know brewed a Dampfbier as well (it's going to GABF), same story. S*** happens.
 
My actual primary interest in doing BJCP training is to get a handle on what the flavours actually are. I've had a few where they made rather bold claims that neither I nor people I had try it could figure out where they got those claims from.
 
Hawkbox said:
My actual primary interest in doing BJCP training is to get a handle on what the flavours actually are. I've had a few where they made rather bold claims that neither I nor people I had try it could figure out where they got those claims from.
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There is that aspect. I enjoy it because it forces me to taste beer critically and to drink beer that isn't my own. Also, understanding the guidelines (that introductory material is dry as popcorn but really drives home what is meant by the guidelines) helps a lot in reading and understanding the style guidelines. Also, lots of novices taste something and can't identify it - all that skunky beer last night and there were two of us who got it immediately and knew what it was - then try to shoehorn it into a flaw. I've had the same experience as you: Someone notes something on a score sheet and I can't taste it. One reason I'm doing BJCP is so I can critically evaluate my own beer without paying for feedback in competitions - I have enough hardware and no longer need any kind of reinforcement that my beer is good. The other is to give back. Lots of people have helped me learn to brew, I really want to pay it forward.
 
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