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Ditto. Or, I make the recipes that mention it work..Or, at least try to.
Poll how many step mash
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Absolutely required for a proper Hefe. You need the precursors that turn into Clove (I say White Pepper, it is definitely *not* Clove, go smell some and get back to me) and Banana and those are made at temps lower than saccharification. (I'll swear a decoction is also required, from experience, but you can still get really close without one.)
Technically I step mash most of my beers, but not as distinct steps.
Each 'step' isn't a hard temp# for a fixed amount of time. Those reactions happen over a range. It just so happens that most of the recommended timings for each 'step' corresponds roughly to the number of ℉ of each range.
Thus for most beers, I dough-in early at 'human temp' roughly 100℉ where if you stick your finger in the strike water, you almost can't even feel it. (because there is no heat exchange, added benefit - no dough balls because you are below the gelatinization temp!) I then slowly ramp the mash at 1℉/minute until I reach the middle 150's. If my conversion is 100% at that point with an iodine test, I proceed ramping to mash-out. If not (maybe 50% of the time) I keep going to the low 160's and turn off my burner and hold a spell, usually about another 20 minutes.
This saves me wasted ramp time and propane of trying to hit a specific mash-in temp and/or trying to achieve fixed steps. The results are the same, save 20–30 minutes shaved off my brew day.
It works just fine on electric systems too, even though those ramp times are usually shorter. (also much easier to dial-in the ramp rate with those)
There is also the benefit that the reactions occur at different rates across their respective ranges, (and pH varies accordingly too!) so by slowly ramping through the range, rather than trying to nail a set temp with a mass that doesn't like change, you get the full benefits of the temp range for each one with way less stress over the process.
And in case you were wondering, does this adversely impact fermentability or body & mouthfeel? Nope. I can't tell you why, but from experience I can tell you the conventional wisdom on those topics isn't necessarily chiseled in stone.
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I've done 100% rye both high single infusion and my 'slow ramp' process outlined above. Both converted 100%. (I do BIAB so no rice hulls, but I do crush a bit larger than Barley with Rye & Wheat at 0.032″ instead of 0.024–28″. I find the beta glucans of both are always a tad gummy for my bag.)
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Doing it your way ramping up slowly is more similar to single infusion
I prefer to mash in at a lower temp then step up with infusion of boiling water so as to not hang around at the lower temperature
I think that is similar to the way decoctions work
I agree with the hefe needs steps
My final step for a hefe is a decoction because I've used up all my water LOL
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Single infusion is one temperature, not increasing temperature. Raising temp in increments via in infusion of boiling water, adding heat, or adding mash liquor and increasing temperature is step mashing. You could think of lower dough-in temp with an addition of boiling to bring to final mash temp as a single infusion, even though it's technically a single step mash.
Raising temperature in a steady ramp up (similar to a traditional Belgian method) is definitely more akin to step mashing than to single infusion.
Decoction involves removing grain from the mash, not liquid, and heating it to gelatinize starches, provide Maillard flavors and increase the temp of the whole mash when it's added back in.
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Well say I'm sitting a 135deg with 1.2 grain ratio and I only want to do a short beta rest for 10 minutes
I'll dump in1.5 gallons immediately go to 145 rest 10 minutes and dump in another 2 gallons and go immediately to 158
Rest there for awhile and pull a decoction ( yes mostly grain) boil 15 and dump it back for mash out
But if I mash in full volume 1st off the grain to water ratio is to high for optimal efficiency
Then while Im heating through the temperature I'm getting an average of the beta and alfa stops similar to single infusion
Both systems work but with different results
I'll dump in1.5 gallons immediately go to 145 rest 10 minutes and dump in another 2 gallons and go immediately to 158
Rest there for awhile and pull a decoction ( yes mostly grain) boil 15 and dump it back for mash out
But if I mash in full volume 1st off the grain to water ratio is to high for optimal efficiency
Then while Im heating through the temperature I'm getting an average of the beta and alfa stops similar to single infusion
Both systems work but with different results
One infusion of water yes, but 'infusion' in brewing literature with respect to the mashing process means 'of heat'. I'm constantly applying heat, very slowly, so 'continuous infusion' might be more accurate and it is very much similar to step mashing, I'm just not holding (usually) and at any single temp or trying to nail a precise temp. (for the reasons noted)
I don't know of any detrimental effects from a bit of extra time at lower rests such that you need to very quickly jump the temp, but if you like it and it works... (the jump doesn't happen anyway like some would think, the mass of grain doesn't want to change easily and there are definitely pockets which don't homogenize quickly.)
Decoction is another animal entirely, though it also is a form of step mashing. (removing, heating, adding back grains rather than adding hot water)
I'll also note, I have the ability to do a continuous ramp on propane, with a bag, because I have a stand-off false bottom:https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/biabbottom1475.htm
Indeed both work. I'm just heating through the entire mash, not just one or two 'steps'. I'm also doing full-volume BIAB at about 3.6 qts/# ratio, so it indeed works. (water/wort will change temp faster than a thick mash)
A 'single' infusion though won't really hit both beta & alpha unless you target the overlap range. (there will be a little bit of slow beta if you mash high regardless. As noted, we're not dealing with cold hard steps or breakpoints. Everything is a range, which includes active temps, active pH, and 'vigor' of the enzymes at each.)
The reasons brewers mashed in 'steps' via adding water or decocting was because that was practical for their equipment. They didn't even know the steps at first, they just knew it worked. When science caught up and invented the thermometer, brewers began documenting their existing processes with this new info. Then the biologists and chemists figured out what was really happening. Now that we know those details, we get to play with different methods of achieving similar results with equipment that is far different than traditionally used. ( and maybe even figure out something entirely new!)
Another reason (besides Hefe) would be if I'm intentionally using undermodified malts or a significant (>30%) non-malted adjuncts. In that case, I'll usually do an acid rest. (or at least ramp through that range) This is also important when using alternative grains such as rice, millet, buckwheat, seen more in gluten-free brewing.
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We're talking semantics and conflating terms.
-Single infusion in homebrewing means combining grain and water to achieve a certain mash thickness and temperature and just leaving it there for the duration. The temperature selected is in the range of both beta-amylase or alpha-amylase but favors one or the other and determines the balance of fermentable to non-fermentable sugars.
-Starting at a lower temp with less water and making multiple additions boiling water to raise temperature and thin the mash and holding for a conversion rest is step-mashing. It's designed to maximize the conditions for a single enzyme and then move on to the preferred range of a different enzyme, ideally to more closely control the balance of fermentable to non-fermentable sugars.
-Starting at a lower temp with full volume and raising temp multiple times and holding for separate beta and alpha rests would be another version of step-mashing IMO.
-Starting at a lower temp with full volume and raising temp very slowly (one to two hours?) all the way up to mash-out temp is a different methodology but would be more akin to step-mashing, IMO.
-Starting at a lower temp with full volume and raising temp once to hold at a specific temp would be essentially the same as single infusion.
-Lower temp, partial volume with a single addition of boiling water to bring to a single temp would technically be the same methodology as a step mash but the effect on conversion is the same as single-infusion - call it single-step. If I use a single conversion temp, this is the way I usually do it...the advantage is a thorough dough-in with a short rest that helps gelatinization.
-Pulling grain to cook at any point is a decoction mash and could be done as part of a step-mash with multiple conversion rests or single infusion, to raise to mash-out temp after a single conversion rest.
-Single infusion in homebrewing means combining grain and water to achieve a certain mash thickness and temperature and just leaving it there for the duration. The temperature selected is in the range of both beta-amylase or alpha-amylase but favors one or the other and determines the balance of fermentable to non-fermentable sugars.
-Starting at a lower temp with less water and making multiple additions boiling water to raise temperature and thin the mash and holding for a conversion rest is step-mashing. It's designed to maximize the conditions for a single enzyme and then move on to the preferred range of a different enzyme, ideally to more closely control the balance of fermentable to non-fermentable sugars.
-Starting at a lower temp with full volume and raising temp multiple times and holding for separate beta and alpha rests would be another version of step-mashing IMO.
-Starting at a lower temp with full volume and raising temp very slowly (one to two hours?) all the way up to mash-out temp is a different methodology but would be more akin to step-mashing, IMO.
-Starting at a lower temp with full volume and raising temp once to hold at a specific temp would be essentially the same as single infusion.
-Lower temp, partial volume with a single addition of boiling water to bring to a single temp would technically be the same methodology as a step mash but the effect on conversion is the same as single-infusion - call it single-step. If I use a single conversion temp, this is the way I usually do it...the advantage is a thorough dough-in with a short rest that helps gelatinization.
-Pulling grain to cook at any point is a decoction mash and could be done as part of a step-mash with multiple conversion rests or single infusion, to raise to mash-out temp after a single conversion rest.
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I'd say we have a #Beef here. @Bigbre04?
Next thing you know, y'all be dumping honey straight into the boil and on top of that you still don't have the cool hats
;-)
I think there's a lot more to step mashing, he!!, even mashing in general than we will ever fully understand, even immersing ourselves in it for years on end.
hmm..
We should have our own "for a proper Hefe" thread, honestly. It sounds interesting.
IIRC, I did a single infusion of my last 2 wheat's and got great results from the yeast, but definitely more banana-ish forward than clove, but not exclusively. I thought the lion's share of this characteristic was yeast driven.
So is your low mash in, steady ramp up a concession to time, efficiency or simplicity of process? You believe you get a better beer from it? A combination?
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I'd say we have a #Beef here. @Bigbre04?
Next thing you know, y'all be dumping honey straight into the boil and on top of that you still don't have the cool hats
Beef is for the smoker...and I don't know about anybody else, but I have the cool hat!
I've done that! (don't do it - honey should never touch heat. I now make it the first thing that goes in a sanitized keg and rack on to it.)
Indeed. The more I learn, the more I discover there is still yet more to learn.
Yes, Hefe yeasts have been 'selected' over time to produce those esters. There are some precursors that they need present in Wheat Malt, but if you do the proper rests (such as ≈114℉ for 'clove') you'll give them more to work with and those aromas and flavors will have staying power beyond a few weeks. Banana is from the Wheat as well, but its production is driven more by favorable yeast conditions than anything else. (open, shallow, high temp fermentation = maximum banana, from a Hefe strain, others *might* produce it, but no guarantees.) I have a reply on a thread somewhere in this ether about maximizing Banana. That's great for a Banana Bomb, which isn't to everyone's taste, but the advantage is that making one means your Hefe stays balanced longer once it dials in as Banana is the first thing to go.
Yes.
Initially I brewed with single full-volume 'strike infusions', held it there, and then pulled the bag for boiling.
Then I had issues maintaining mash temp so I'd have to re-fire the burner occasionally. This became a big issue in colder months and when I attempted to do step mashing. (before I tried decoctions)
After learning that the 'steps' are not really steps, but a natural progression of ranges, and seeing how hard it was with propane to nail a set step and hold it, I decided to try the slow ramp instead. (with the bonus to avoid dough-balls)
My conversions are now complete without struggling, my beers are better overall, and I waste less propane and time. (I generally prefer medium to medium-full body which this produces. If I want full, I'll add some flaked or non-malted grains. If I want less, I would plan to use a sugar and maybe even dilute a bit. I suppose I could also attempt to hold in the 140s longer and then just rapidly jump to a boil, but in 9 years, I've never wanted less body in a beer. If I really wanted to drink MichUltra, I'd just buy it.)
Decoctions serve other purposes than temperature rises. So I'll still do them for certain styles where that is traditional. (Hefe, Märzen, etc.) I'm even working on a 'reverse' or 'continuous' decoction method for those without using a bag, but I have some logistical lautering kinks to work out. I hope to try one this Summer.
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Mashing is the fun part
I guess different ways to get there
But I'm going to play devil's advocate here
If you're ramping slowly through all the temperatures won't you convert all the sugars leaving little for the alpha rest ?
Which is fine for some styles but for malty styles why not mash in higher in an insulated pot and drift back into the beta range
I also step my decoctions pull the decoction at 135 heat that to 145 rest 15min then boil for 15 more before dumping it back to raise the temperature of the whole mash for the beta rest then do the next decoction with the rest at 158 and then boil it . Dump it in and bring the mash into the alpha range
I guess different ways to get there
But I'm going to play devil's advocate here
If you're ramping slowly through all the temperatures won't you convert all the sugars leaving little for the alpha rest ?
Which is fine for some styles but for malty styles why not mash in higher in an insulated pot and drift back into the beta range
I also step my decoctions pull the decoction at 135 heat that to 145 rest 15min then boil for 15 more before dumping it back to raise the temperature of the whole mash for the beta rest then do the next decoction with the rest at 158 and then boil it . Dump it in and bring the mash into the alpha range
I always picture beta and alpha as tools or machines, and starches and dextrins are loooong chains or in fact shrubs of carbohydrate molecules (and proteins and lipids and other things are also present but it's safe to set those aside). Beta amylase (and all the other enzymes besides alpha) are nibblers, like a hand pruner for your shrubberies, they snip just a tiny bit of highly fermentable sugars off the ends of the starches and dextrins, leaving slightly smaller shrubberies. Alpha amylase, on the other hand, is like a friggin chainsaw, which moves slowly at lower temperatures and very fast at higher temperatures. The beta pruners are also weaker and wear out quickly (in the 150s F), while the alpha is much tougher to destroy (not until about 168 F).
SO...... if you start your mash temperature low and work your way up... all the enzymes are working nicely but also slowly. If you only mash for about an hour or even 90 minutes total time in a region below like 148 F, there's still a lot of big shrubberies left by the end of it. Hypothetically, if you mashed for many many hours, like overnight, you might be right, maybe there would be not much left for the alpha if you raised up the temperature after many hours... IF there are even much beta enzymes left after a certain point, which is iffy and depends on mash temperature. But, you see, TIME has more effect than anything else. If you have hours or overnight to spend mashing, then yeah you're onto something. But if you don't feel like mashing all day long or for more than 90 minutes or so, then the alpha has to come into play to bust up those shrubberies.
OR... just mash for about an hour at around 150-155 F and you're pretty much good to go. Or mash for 90 minutes if you really care about simplifying those sugars. But, mashing cooler than 150 F fails to sufficiently gelatinize the starches unless you decoct, and isn't great for the speed of the alpha which is always present but works much slower until about the 150s F.
If you do that, you'll kill most or all of your beta amylase (and a dozen or more other minor enzymes)... which is fine for "malty" styles if by "malty" you mean dextrinous, bigger body, more head, higher FG, but not fine if you mean "malty flavored" which is a totally different beast.
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Nice analogy
I've never went from hot to cold anyway
I just mash in at a 1.2 grain/water ratio because I've heard that's the most effective for converting sugars
Also efficient time, wise only heating 3 gallons of water to 145F for mash in and rest at 135
So after your post
I'll then do my 1st decoction from 135 and raise the temp too 145 for my first 30 minutes rest keeping the 1.2 ratio
Then add boiling water to get my second step up for the 30 minutes alpha rest.
Then either decoct again or probably infuse hot water for mash out so keeping the mash thick
Sound good
I've never went from hot to cold anyway
I just mash in at a 1.2 grain/water ratio because I've heard that's the most effective for converting sugars
Also efficient time, wise only heating 3 gallons of water to 145F for mash in and rest at 135
So after your post
I'll then do my 1st decoction from 135 and raise the temp too 145 for my first 30 minutes rest keeping the 1.2 ratio
Then add boiling water to get my second step up for the 30 minutes alpha rest.
Then either decoct again or probably infuse hot water for mash out so keeping the mash thick
Sound good
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so after reading this I will infuse the first step with boiling water then decoct the 2nd and 3rd step
https://byo.com/articles/brew-in-a-bag-efficiency/
https://byo.com/articles/brew-in-a-bag-efficiency/
Convert all the sugars? Yes. Before the α-amylase rest? No. That enzyme isn't good at converting sugars anyway, but it is good at breaking down long chains for the β-amylase to munch on. Oddly, their optimum temp ranges are opposite of what you'd expect in this set up, which is why 'reverse step' mashes work too. (It turns out my inability to hold higher temp was not to the beer's detriment) Fortunately, everything is a range, and is also time and pH dependent, so there is still plenty of β-amylase around to do the clean-up work α-amylase leaves behind once I've ramped into the higher ranges. (this is why if you are having trouble converting 100%, carefully bump your mash into the upper 150s to lower 160s and hold a spell, you'll see gravity jump in short order.)
I forgot, I also get the benefit of some Maltase activity with my low dough-in procedure. That eats sugars off the opposite end of the chains. Reviewing this again seems to indicate I shouldn't even wait until 100℉ and just dough-in right after filling. (my ground water in Spring & Fall is easily 75℉, Summer can hit 80℉+ without trying.) I also see the optimum pH for Maltase is up near 6.0, so I might do a trial where I wait to add acid until I'm further along in the ramp. (with the added benefit of needing to add less since I'm also going through the 'acid rest' range slowly)
Here is your deep dive for the day - more science than you can shake a stick at:
https://web.archive.org/web/2025032...aukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Starch_Conversion
Looks like you're doing what Kai terms 'classic double' decoction:
https://web.archive.org/web/20250207031015/https://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_Mashing
I've done or participated in every method on that page. Unfortunately, my friends and I have never done any side-by-side comparisons of the various methods, but that might be on the table!
I get those look like lots of work to folks who aren't used to the procedure. I won't kid you, it isn't as easy as not doing them, but even a single decoction done well will reap noticeable benefits in the final product. My friends and I did a side-by-side of single-infusion vs. double-decoction in a Dunkelweisse. The results in a blind tasting convinced me the effort was always worth it. The beers were night and day apart and the decocted version was far superior.
