Which malts give the highest FG?

[Brewer #462552]

I'm planing a fruit beer with blackberries.
I'd like the FG 1020-1025 and the ABV max 7%.
I want a sweet, strong blackberry flavor.
I use a brewzilla 3.5 and have an efficiency 65%
My recipe so far is:
4kg(8lb) pilsen malt
1kg(2lb) special B malt
1,5kg(3lb) Honey malt
1kg(2lb) triple melanoidin malt
5kg(10lb) frozen blackberrys.

According to Brewfriend this gives OG 1065, FG 1016 and ABV 6.4
I'd welcome suggestions to the malt bill to increase FG

Best regards
Rolf

 

[dmtaylor]

Oh dear... that is an awful lot of Special B and melanoidin malt! These are extremely powerful malts. Honey malt is also powerful and sweet, but a good one to keep in there as-is. I would take the Special B and melanoidin down to about 50 to 75 grams each, no more than that. Then to replace the rest of the grist that you have removed, simply add 500 grams of either lactose or maltodextrin (white powder), as these are not fermentable and will sweeten the beer as you wanted. This will be a far better recipe than the original, and will showcase the blackberries instead of burnt caramel and burnt toast.

 

[Brew Cat]

that recipe sounds gross IMO
I'd get rid of the Melanoidin for sure
your almost 50% specialty malt
Id add some wheat malt or flaked wheat

 

[Bigbre04]

as was said above, too much specialty is not a good thing. i would always reference the manufacturers recommended percentages. GENERALLY speaking, i wouldnt do more then 5% of spec b, honey, or melanoidin. as was said above, you can add lactose.

another option is to up your mash temp to 156. which will end up with a higher FG.

also a word of warning fruit wise, gotta be careful adding straight fruit. freezing helps, but you could add some bugs that wont be wanted. also blackberries are fairly tart once they ferment out. you also need to blend them up to break the berries up. removing the seeds would be good as fermenting with "wood" can produce methanol. albeit this is a fairly minor amount. just something to think about.

Edited to add: if you are unable to sanitize your fruit, you may be better off overpitching your yeast and giving it a really good head start to prevent any infections from the fruit.

to sanitize it you could puree it and add some sugar and boil the whole thing for a bit, cool it down and then pitch it. Sort of the same way you make a jam or preserves just without canning them.

OR just buy aeseptic fruit or flavoring(what i do)

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

there is an enzyme malt that is supposed to be higher yield originally for distillation, morebeer sells it

 

[Brew Cat]

As far as fruit what we do for grapes when making wine is crush the grapes and a Camden tablet for 24 hours then sprinkle the yeast on top to start fermentation
Start your beer fermentation then when the krausen starts to drop crush your fruit with the Camden then 24 hours rack the beer on it and restart fermentation
You might also think about some acid blend
I'm not sure how tart you want it

 

[Sandy Feet]

If you want it sweet, pasteurize your fruit and add some after the fermentation is over with a little sugar being very, very careful about your sanitation.

 

[Sandy Feet]

If you are going to use Pilsner and Wheat, a Saison would be nice with the fruit. The FG will NOT be high on that. Add a little something, something at the end.

 

[Brew Cat]

If you want it sweet, pasteurize your fruit and add some after the fermentation is over with a little sugar being very, very careful about your sanitation.

pasteurizing fruit and adding sugar will not make it sweet unless you are talking about back sweetening in which case you need to pasteurize the beer itself after fermentation
of course unless you are kegging and intend to keep it pretty cold

 

[Brew Cat]

If you are going to use Pilsner and Wheat, a Saison would be nice with the fruit. The FG will NOT be high on that. Add a little something, something at the end.

Saison yeast generally attenuates pretty far though right?
I agree with @Bigbre04 mash close to 160 to finish high

 

[Donoroto]

If you want a high final gravity, as in sweetness, mash at 155F to 158F. A high-temperature mail will not ferment as much.

 

[Brewer #462552]

Oh dear... that is an awful lot of Special B and melanoidin malt! These are extremely powerful malts. Honey malt is also powerful and sweet, but a good one to keep in there as-is. I would take the Special B and melanoidin down to about 50 to 75 grams each, no more than that. Then to replace the rest of the grist that you have removed, simply add 500 grams of either lactose or maltodextrin (white powder), as these are not fermentable and will sweeten the beer as you wanted. This will be a far better recipe than the original, and will showcase the blackberries instead of burnt caramel and burnt toast.

Thank you all for your suggestion. I've Modified the recipe to:
2.5 kg Pilsen malt 33.8%
3 kg Wheat malt 40.5%
1.8 kg Honey malt 24.3%
0.1 kg Special B 1.4%

This should give OG 1059, FG 1016, ABV 5.7% before adding the blackberries to the second fermentation.
After 5kg blackberrries FG 1018 and ABV 6.34
Migth try to add 500gr of lactose or maltodextrin,

Best regards
Rolf

 

[Bigbre04]

Thank you all for your suggestion. I've Modified the recipe to:
2.5 kg Pilsen malt 33.8%
3 kg Wheat malt 40.5%
1.8 kg Honey malt 24.3%
0.1 kg Special B 1.4%

This should give OG 1059, FG 1016, ABV 5.7% before adding the blackberries to the second fermentation.
After 5kg blackberrries FG 1018 and ABV 6.34
Migth try to add 500gr of lactose or maltodextrin,

Best regards
Rolf

so i do a lot of fruit beers and sours. adding some vanilla to the beer will round off the flavor and add a slight sweetness. if you add a small amount(not enough to taste the vanilla) it will add a creamy sweet flavor that you will not know comes from vanilla.

i would also look very hard at how much Honey malt is recommended. the interwebs says up to 10% of the grainbill. i would probably reduce that to 5% personally. but you do you.

 

[Sandy Feet]

pasteurizing fruit and adding sugar will not make it sweet unless you are talking about back sweetening in which case you need to pasteurize the beer itself after fermentation
of course unless you are kegging and intend to keep it pretty cold

Back sweetening and kegging both, yes.
Saisons attenuate very low, but you can do fruit in the secondary.

 

[Brew Cat]

Iv played with fruit extensively and citrus is the only fruit I work with in beer now except a sour

I've found soft mast and stone fruits work best when fermented separately and then blended back
This way you can control the product
And worse case is you end up with a drinkable beer and a drinkable wine

Not quite sure what your going for with
that much honey malt
Maybe your trying to make it sour

 

[Bigbre04]

Iv played with fruit extensively and citrus is the only fruit I work with in beer now except a sour

I've found soft mast and stone fruits work best when fermented separately and then blended back
This way you can control the product
And worse case is you end up with a drinkable beer and a drinkable wine

Not quite sure what your going for with
that much honey malt
Maybe your trying to make it sour

honestly i dont know what that much honey malt would taste like. To me, honey malt does not really taste like honey, more just biscuit/bready. similar to victory. it may become a little overpowering???

interesting thought on the wine blend. i have had lots of success tossing purees in and fermenting them out. but i also keep flavorings on hand to touch up the final product. incase one fruit gets overpowered or lost.

 

[Brew Cat]

honestly i dont know what that much honey malt would taste like. To me, honey malt does not really taste like honey, more just biscuit/bready. similar to victory. it may become a little overpowering???

interesting thought on the wine blend. i have had lots of success tossing purees in and fermenting them out. but i also keep flavorings on hand to touch up the final product. incase one fruit gets overpowered or lost.

Yeah I would use it more like a melanoidin malt
It does have a lower Ph than pilsner so maybe that much it would lower the Ph of the final product without adjusting for it
I'm Just throwing stuff at the wall as usual

 

[Bigbre04]

Yeah I would use it more like a melanoidin malt
It does have a lower Ph than pilsner so maybe that much it would lower the Ph of the final product without adjusting for it
I'm Just throwing stuff at the wall as usual

i had no idea it has a lower ph. thats interesting.

 

[Brew Cat]

Yeah well I was reading about how it's different than say biscuit malt
Apparently it is moistened but at a lower temp than crystal malt to avoid converting
Then it's roasted
But no lactic is added so it's not sold as aciduated malt
Gambrius coined the term honey malt
The German term is brümalt and I think it was used to adjust the mash
Not sure That's exactly right but probably needs more research

 

[Brew Cat]

Ok I looked around some more and fermented malt which I think brümalt is drops the mash Ph about half what acid malt does
The idea of letting the malt ferment is to get some more flavor out of it where as aciduated malt is just used for ph adjustments
Please don't take this as gospel
Maybe some can correct this