WC IPA Modern Grain/hops

[Bigbre04]

Hey yall,

I was listening to a podcast about the current state of WC IPAs by Ben from Breakside. Went ahead and built a recipe based on what he was saying the current WC style is. thoughts on this recipe? its using all Cryo. Fun fact, Ben and I were classmates at Siebel many beers ago.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1617296

 

[Dave Y]

Got a link to the podcast?
I've been thinking hard about WCIPA, got a recent porter, cascadian dark ale and roggenbier done, really need to redo my schwarzbier but ... ugh...decisions.

Mine will probably sub in rye for the wheat and be pretty close; peasant 2 row, pils and a neutral yeast.

 

[Craigerrr]

No Chinook or Centenial I see

 

[Zefram]

No Chinook or Centenial I see

Right? Doesn't seem very WC... but I'm a bit old school with my IPAs

(The recipe looks tasty though... just not my idea of WC.)

 

[Bigbre04]

Right? Doesn't seem very WC... but I'm a bit old school with my IPAs

(The recipe looks tasty though... just not my idea of WC.)

I dont have any centennial, i think i have some chinook on hand. i could sub that in for something.

@Dave Y it was the Master Brewers podcast episode #352...i need to re-listen to it as well.

 

[Brew Cat]

Hey yall,

I was listening to a podcast about the current state of WC IPAs by Ben from Breakside. Went ahead and built a recipe based on what he was saying the current WC style is. thoughts on this recipe? its using all Cryo. Fun fact, Ben and I were classmates at Siebel many beers ago.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/1617296

all CRYO ?
seems a waste for bittering
why not extract for bittering ?

Right? Doesn't seem very WC... but I'm a bit old school with my IPAs

(The recipe looks tasty though... just not my idea of WC.)

yeah it looks more NE other than the yeast
I think a WC would be mashed a lot lower than 158F also

 

[Dave Y]

So I listened to the podcast and I remember one of the topics was 7% IPAs.

After it was done I checked a couple of my efforts, including last year’s Lutra IPA then I jumped into Chat GPT and fed it some equipment data, etc and ‘build an all grain WCIPA recipe. It was surprisingly close to what I’d have put together but I want to keep the ABV in the 6-6.5 range.

The dry hop charge seemed low to me at about 3 oz. For 6 gallons. It was kinda neat, but I think it would suck some of the fun out of working up a recipe

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I listened to that podcast and it looks like West Coast is drifting and looking more like a Cold IPA. Ben mentioned the dry hop rates are going up to @ 2 to 6 pounds per barrel. I dry hop the living p1$$ out of my Cold IPA and I'm on the lower end of that scale. I can't image dry hopping at 6 pounds per barrel (that's one pound per 5 gallons), the losses and yield must really be bad. I'm at 2 pounds per barrel (ratio wise) and the losses are @20-25% or more per batch.

The way I get around dry hopping as heavy, is to use a very large whirlpool addition, the flavor is better and the aroma is just as high. It picks up quite a bit of bitterness, so you have to watch it. An IBU of 65 with a 7% ABV beer seems to be the sweet spot for balance. The higher alcohol on the lighter colored beers can become sweet, so base malt selection important (Rahr Premium Pils is good).

The West Coast is becoming lighter, more attenuated with a refined bitterness. The hop flavor and aroma is higher. Many brewers are turning to lager yeast for more delicate finish and for the touch of sulfur. I really like it.

 

[Brew Cat]

well a cold IPA would probably have corn or rice in the grist along with lager yeast and also drier
take away the adjuncts and use the lager yeast your closer to an IPL

with the mash temperature of 158F may not be that dry in @Bigbre04 s recipe so wouldn't be either of those
I think the bitterness may be a tad low for a WC maybe another 10pts

by the way it looks like a great beer but as usual with me I get stuck on the nomenclature

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

well a cold IPA would probably have corn or rice in the grist along with lager yeast

That's actually being used by some brewers for a "West Coast IPA". The podcast is interesting and to it shows how quickly this style has changed and how it's influenced by lager beers. Here's the link:

https://www.masterbrewerspodcast.com/352

 

[Steve Ruch]

I may be an old fogey* but my recipe(s) for WC IPA use centennial and cascade or simcoe and amarillo.



*may?

 

[Brew Cat]

That's actually being used by some brewers for a "West Coast IPA". The podcast is interesting and to it shows how quickly this style has changed and how it's influenced by lager beers. Here's the link:

https://www.masterbrewerspodcast.com/352

are you talking about the adjuncts or the yeast or both ?

this is really not that new
people have been hopping up cream ales and pre pros for years even myself
someone came up with a name of cold IPA after the fact

my point is if I looked at @Bigbre04 recipe without the name what would I think it was

I'm brewing today so will try to listen to that

 

[Bigbre04]

all CRYO ?
seems a waste for bittering
why not extract for bittering ?

yeah it looks more NE other than the yeast
I think a WC would be mashed a lot lower than 158F also

the mash will be at 148 which means that the grain will be between 146 and 150 for my stupid system. extract is a huge pain in the ass to deal with. i have the cryo on hand. I have to use all cryo or i wont get my volumes especially with a dryhopped beer.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

are you talking about the adjuncts or the yeast or both ?

this is really not that new
people have been hopping up cream ales and pre pros for years even myself
someone came up with a name of cold IPA after the fact

my point is if I looked at @Bigbre04 recipe without the name what would I think it was

I'm brewing today so will try to listen to that

Lager yeast and adjuncts, but not all use these ingredients, some still use Chico strains. It’s different from a IPL in that it’s warm fermented to drive off most of the sulfur.

The West Coast is drifting into the realm of Cold IPA/IPL, which is the point of the podcast. Nothing new in brewing terms, just a shift in the style.

 

[Bigbre04]

i recall the podcast mentioning that the actual IBUs are dropping down to closer to the 50 mark and the hop selection is drifting more towards the juicy side of things.

the big difference between juicy/hazy and WC to me is the yeast, clarity, and dryhop schedule.

i dont have the spare volume to dryhop much more then i am, i could but i would be sacrificing a lot liquid to make a more expensive beer.

I could certainly run a lager yeast, but none of mine really throw a lot of sulfur. a nice chico ferment is pretty clean while being roughly half the tank time.

i will probably brew something similar to this next week.

 

[Brew Cat]

OK just finished listening and a bit geeky but It reinforces what I stated above
he states this is his opinion and nothing is written in stone
he mentions many calling it a dry hopped Malt Liquor, I mentioned dry hopped cream ale which is a lower ABV version of malt liquor IMO
he also says use extract and a bit of T90 to keep the west coast bite that is novel and I like that idea
he's not mashing at 158
another point he makes and this is toward someone selling the beer is the added hop and ABV is adding a substantial cost

 

[Bigbre04]

OK just finished listening and a bit geeky but It reinforces what I stated above
he states this is his opinion and nothing is written in stone
he mentions many calling it a dry hopped Malt Liquor, I mentioned dry hopped cream ale which is a lower ABV version of malt liquor IMO
he also says use extract and a bit of T90 to keep the west coast bite that is novel and I like that idea
he's not mashing at 158
another point he makes and this is toward someone selling the beer is the added hop and ABV is adding a substantial cost

Very nerdy, but i can mostly follow it. i am not sure why he refers to FG as TG, i might have missed something though. In some ways, large scale production is a very different language then small scale or homebrewing.

On his scale(i think he said roughly 300,000bbls a year) he is even more worried about the batch cost.

i dont have the luxury of having both T90 and cryo of the same hop. extracts are a giant pain in the ass if you have never used them. they are the cheapest option, but i have read some negative reviews of a lot of them. Especially vs cryo.

 

[Brew Cat]

the big difference between juicy/hazy and WC to me is the yeast, clarity, and dryhop schedule

and the sulfate/chloride ratio
used to 2:1 or 3:1 in the WC reverse that for the NE

 

[Brew Cat]

Especially vs cryo.

cryo and extract are two different animals
extract is for bittering the lupulin powder is removed and I believe that's how they actually make cryo hops with the lupulin powder

 

[Bigbre04]

cryo and extract are two different animals
extract is for bittering the lupulin powder is removed and I believe that's how they actually make cryo hops with the lupulin powder

i understand, i have some chinook extract. it is really annoying to use because it is super thick and sticky. I am trying to use up the last of my cryo columbus.

i use the same salts for everything generally as my water is fairly limiting.