Starting with starters

[Kgbow]

Hi there,

I'm making the jump from extract to all grain brewing. I have most of the equipment, just waiting on the device for fermentation temp control before I brew.

My question is this. I've noticed a lot of people will make a starter for liquid yeast. I've only ever used dry yeast. My first all grain brew is going to be a wit bier. Would it be beneficial to me to replace the dry yeast with liquid yeast (with a starter) is there any benefit to taste? and if so, what would be the best way of making it? I have a 1000ml flask and thats about it!

Thank you

 

[Sunfire96]

Hi there,

I'm making the jump from extract to all grain brewing. I have most of the equipment, just waiting on the device for fermentation temp control before I brew.

My question is this. I've noticed a lot of people will make a starter for liquid yeast. I've only ever used dry yeast. My first all grain brew is going to be a wit bier. Would it be beneficial to me to replace the dry yeast with liquid yeast (with a starter) is there any benefit to taste? and if so, what would be the best way of making it? I have a 1000ml flask and thats about it!

Thank you

You don't need to use liquid yeast for all grain, dry yeast is still good but the variety of options for liquid yeast is much better than dry so if there's a yeast you can't find a dry version of, liquid will have it. Not everyone that uses liquid yeast makes starters, but it can be beneficial for ensuring your yeast is healthy and viable, especially if it's an old pack. A lot of people buy thr liquid yeast and put it in as is

 

[Minbari]

I have found that making a starter for liquid yeast generally makes active fermentation start sooner. less lag time means less chance of infection or other yeast taking hold. if you dont have a way to purge the fermentor, it also means that a blanket of co2 will form faster.

1000mL is a bit small. I would look at getting 2 things if you want to do starters.
1) 2000mL erlenmeyer flask
2) stir plate.

I got this stir plate. works really well, rarely throws the bar.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01F34Y7VK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Zambi]

I've only ever used dry yeast for convenience reasons (I can get them & keep them, enough choice for me, easy to use and they travel well).
For your first all grain, keep it easy, use a dry yeast. Then later on, start dabbling in starters

 

[Sunfire96]

I've only ever used dry yeast for convenience reasons (I can get them & keep them, enough choice for me, easy to use and they travel well).
For your first all grain, keep it easy, use a dry yeast. Then later on, start dabbling in starters

Agreed with Zambezi. You'll have enough to worry about without throwing a new yeast in there too. Stick to a yeast that you're familiar with and if you have attenuation problems you can analyze your mash temp schedule. But if it's a new yeast and you're not sure how it's supposed to act, it could be more difficult diagnosing problems with your all grain process

 

[Zambi]

Beautiful hobby this as there are just so many choices and (almost) no totally wrong or right.
Just remember KG, it's fun. Chill, relax, have a drink

 

[Kgbow]

Agreed with Zambezi. You'll have enough to worry about without throwing a new yeast in there too. Stick to a yeast that you're familiar with and if you have attenuation problems you can analyze your mash temp schedule. But if it's a new yeast and you're not sure how it's supposed to act, it could be more difficult diagnosing problems with your all grain process

Seems like a wise idea. I know, come brew day I'll no doubt be flustered on it.

Beautiful hobby this as there are just so many choices and (almost) no totally wrong or right.
Just remember KG, it's fun. Chill, relax, have a drink

Too true. I'm actually enjoying the complexity of this hobby as well as the simplicity? If that makes sense. I like the idea of making a yeast starter to give my brew the best chance possible. Dose it change the taste at all?

 

[Zefram]

Congrats on making the jump to all grain... it's more work, but I think more fun!

You can still use dry yeast. For a wit, I recommend LalBrew Wit... it produces less esters that you would expect in a hefe. I always use two packets for 5 gallons to be safe, but one will work.

When I do use liquid yeast, I prefer a starter for the same reasons Minbari mentioned. The day or two before brewing, I mix 100g of DME, 1L of water, 1/2 tsp of yeast nutrients, and one drop of FermCap into a flask. I bring it to a boil on the range top, cool it down in the sink, and then pitch the yeast. I use a stir plate, but you can get by just swirling the flask around periodically.

 

[Minbari]

Seems like a wise idea. I know, come brew day I'll no doubt be flustered on it.




Too true. I'm actually enjoying the complexity of this hobby as well as the simplicity? If that makes sense. I like the idea of making a yeast starter to give my brew the best chance possible. Dose it change the taste at all?

it can, healthy yeast dont produce as much off flavours. but as others have said. maybe back-burner this for a couple batches.

maybe make a hefewiezten? you want the clovey off flavours that under pitched yeast produce

 

[Kgbow]

it can, healthy yeast dont produce as much off flavours. but as others have said. maybe back-burner this for a couple batches.

maybe make a hefewiezten? you want the clovey off flavours that under pitched yeast produce

brilliant! Although, surely making a starter the night before my all grain weißbier would help? I'm fairly confident I could make it successfully. I'll set it on the back burner and see how I feel once it's time to brew.

 

[Zambi]

brilliant! Although, surely making a starter the night before my all grain weißbier would help? I'm fairly confident I could make it successfully. I'll set it on the back burner and see how I feel once it's time to brew.

I got a feeling you are going to have to do a split batch
One with your first attempt liquid yeast starter and one with the dry yeast of your choice

 

[Kgbow]

I got a feeling you are going to have to do a split batch
One with your first attempt liquid yeast starter and one with the dry yeast of your choice

Great thinking! Could then run a direct comparison too.

 

[Minbari]

brilliant! Although, surely making a starter the night before my all grain weißbier would help? I'm fairly confident I could make it successfully. I'll set it on the back burner and see how I feel once it's time to brew.

you really want to do it 3 days before. let the starter sit for 24-48 hours and then cold crash it in the fridge to compact the yeast to the bottom.
some people just toss the entire starter in the wort, I decant the starter beer off and just pitch the yeast.

 

[Dornbox]

you really want to do it 3 days before. let the starter sit for 24-48 hours and then cold crash it in the fridge to compact the yeast to the bottom.
some people just toss the entire starter in the wort, I decant the starter beer off and just pitch the yeast.

Wait… you can crash and decant your starter!?!? That’s just crazy talk! Lol. I’m so lazy with my starter that I use Proper Pitch. Easy peasy, 123, and pitch!

 

[Minbari]

Wait… you can crash and decant your starter!?!? That’s just crazy talk! Lol. I’m so lazy with my starter that I use Proper Pitch. Easy peasy, 123, and pitch!

lol, I use proper as well. I still crash and decant it

 

[Dornbox]

lol, I use proper as well. I still crash and decant it

Have you ever tasted the proper? It has a twang that reminds me of canned tomato sauce. Still, so easy to use. I may start canning my own wort though. Just gotta figure out how to go from hot pasteurized wort to canned without collapsing the can. Jarring it may be easier.

 

[Minbari]

Have you ever tasted the proper? It has a twang that reminds me of canned tomato sauce. Still, so easy to use. I may start canning my own wort though. Just gotta figure out how to go from hot pasteurized wort to canned without collapsing the can. Jarring it may be easier.

never really tasted it. cant be any worse than using DME

I am actually gonna try a process that @Trialben uses. he takes some of the boiled wort durring brew day and makes the starter out of that. then pitches the next day.

 

[Dornbox]

never really tasted it. cant be any worse than using DME

I am actually gonna try a process that @Trialben uses. he takes some of the boiled wort durring brew day and makes the starter out of that. then pitches the next day.

Exactly what I was thinking only canning or jarring the wort so I can use it for a starter weeks down the road. It’s been a loooong time since I’ve used DME but I don’t ever remember a canned tomato sauce flavor. Lol. I think I’ve only used it for starters actually. My first batch of beer was one of those horrible Mr Beer kits. After that 1st batch I was all in and brewing full grain.

 

[Minbari]

Exactly what I was thinking only canning or jarring the wort so I can use it for a starter weeks down the road. It’s been a loooong time since I’ve used DME but I don’t ever remember a canned tomato sauce flavor. Lol. I think I’ve only used it for starters actually. My first batch of beer was one of those horrible Mr Beer kits. After that 1st batch I was all in and brewing full grain.

I just jumped in feet first. went for a full electric BIAB system, all grain. it was beer, but I cant say it was very good, lol.

 

[Kgbow]

My first batch of beer was one of those horrible Mr Beer kits. After that 1st batch I was all in and brewing full grain.

I can't wait to try the difference between a DME kit beer and an all-grain.

As for the DME starter I did wonder that. If I was to pitch the starter created with DME would it not alter the flavour slightly? Or is it too small and insignificant to notice?