imaginary trip through the time zones (beer window view)

Anyone in GMT +1?
Or anyone that has been there and wants to say/ask something?
I can answer a bit: like real important things to know. When in France, don't ask for a bière and wonder why you keep getting bottles and everyone else is drinking draught beer. Ask for "une pression" :D
(Or maybe "un". Can't remember)

If not, we go to GMT
UK, Ireland, Iceland, Portugal and part of North West Africa
 
I traveled to Germany and Austria when I was a teenager. My beer palate was far from developed, and I hadn't really drank much in the US before traveling. My go to beer was always a Dunkel in a "groß" glass (that's the big one :D). I've never really liked weizen beers and only recently began enjoying light lagers.

I remember ordering by beer style instead of brewery wherever we went, it was just whatever brewery was local. Very different from the craft beer market in America.

We also tried a bacon rauchbier from Bamburg. It was....like drinking smoke lol but it was a memorable experience for sure! I would love to travel to Germany again, this time armed with my much better beer knowledge. Prost!
 
I'm sure you'll find things have changed a lot!
Obviously, depending on how long ago it was that you were a teenager :D
 
I'm sure we got a couple people in the UK...
Please give us a bit of info?
Otherwise I'm becoming a bit lonesome on my beer(broom)stick o_O
I've only been to the UK a couple times and tried their not really cold ales.
I did OK, but had to go back to lagers.
Also had ciders. Favourite one was Tatcher's. The cider by that name was much more popular than the politician :p:p
Now this was before I started making beer. Really would love trying them ales again
 
@AHarper @Steve SPF I'm sure there are some other Brits on here that I'm forgetting!

Well as for here in the UK the number of breweries must run in to the tens of thousands - almost too many to count let alone sample their brews.. I try but... hey I have my own to drink...

I think I am spoiled for choice...

In West Sussex alone we have these... they are all within 20 miles of me here in Brighton -

upload_2022-6-15_22-49-54.png


And as for East Sussex we have these. And I have been to a few but not all... so far anyway.
upload_2022-6-15_23-14-30.png


If you want to explore for yourself then see here: https://www.ratebeer.com/breweries/england/76/240/
Your local brewery may even be in there somewhere.
 
@AHarper @Steve SPF I'm sure there are some other Brits on here that I'm forgetting!

Sorry; reporting for duty :)

It's the English styles that interest me. Cask conditioned, secondary (Secondarily??) fermented, served 'warm' so that other folk can make fun of us, served flat in the South so us folk in the North can make fun of someone else, shelf life of short-dated milk once it's breached and nothing quite like it anywhere else when it's on form.

I've said before that on the face of it cask beer is a real quirky product that should have been snaffled up by time but the sector is in very good health and in no danger at all. I think that's part tradition, part the work of those who fought hard to retain it - quirks and all - and very importantly because it massively lowers the bar for small brewers to get their beer to market.

We got into a really silly argument a few years ago when craft beer came along and the traditionalists (CAMRA) decided that it wasn't 'real' beer based, in the end, on the size of the yeast particles left in it. Fortunately that argument didn't really hold up and the craft beer choice here now is amazing.

I say it often but right here right now in the UK is a great time to be interested in beer.
 
What I find particularly fascinating about UK (or just England??) beer history is the custom of the Tied Beer House/Estate, essentially the practice of the brewer owning the bar, something that (as far as I know) hasn't been legal in the States since before Prohibition. Is this practice still going strong or has it run its course? I can imagine that a Tied House had many advantages and disadvantages.
 
Warm flat beer is a double joke for the British: Everyone else laughs because they can't build refrigerators or make casks that don't leak all the CO2 out. But the British know, when the pub and brewer get it right, it is sublime. And, like milk, it can't (easily) be exported, although Boddington's does a half-decent job with their special cans.

Despite being Roman subjects once, who almost exclusively drank wine, one can argue that real beermaking originated in Britain.
 
What I find particularly fascinating about UK (or just England??) beer history is the custom of the Tied Beer House/Estate, essentially the practice of the brewer owning the bar, something that (as far as I know) hasn't been legal in the States since before Prohibition. Is this practice still going strong or has it run its course? I can imagine that a Tied House had many advantages and disadvantages.
It's more or less the same in the Netherlands (GMT + 1) The lager served is always from the keg. And it is either Grolsch, or Amstel, or Bavaria, or Heineken etc.
You can get another brand lager (i think) but from the bottle. We don't drink from the bottle. We drink from glasses ;).
There will be different beers on keg as well, always a couple of Belgians, these days probably a fairly local ale, wit or weizen in summer. These are not tied to the brewery. Just the lagers
 
What I find particularly fascinating about UK (or just England??) beer history is the custom of the Tied Beer House/Estate, essentially the practice of the brewer owning the bar, something that (as far as I know) hasn't been legal in the States since before Prohibition. Is this practice still going strong or has it run its course? I can imagine that a Tied House had many advantages and disadvantages.

That's called 'vertical integration' and was very normal for us up until the 1980s. In the 1980s we had a notorious piece of legislation commonly called The Beer Orders.

At the time we had six major brewers with pub estates and a national presence - plus dozens of smaller regional brewers - and for some stilll unfathomable reason this was perceived as a monopoly. In a move that looked bonkers at the time, and looks even more bonkers with the benefit of hindsight, the government of the day mandated that any brewer with a pub estate over 2000 sites must sell 50% of the pubs over and above that 2000.

There was no legislation around brewing though so there were all sorts of weird pub-for-brewery swaps, massive sales of packages going to brewery directors with the brewers lending them the money and then imposing a beer tie in return, massive packages going to property companies and an exercise in asset stripping like we've never seen before or since.

Of course, the business brains ran rings round the political brains and a lot of people made a lot of money. The upshot for us as a consuming public was that much of the tied house system disappeared and many of our older and much-revered brewers got gobbled up because the knobs in power didn't have the foresight to see it coming.

The pubs that went to property companies - Primarily Punch Taverns and Enterprise Inns - were operated on ruthless full repairing leases and dropped into a total monopoly situation where their landlord - a property company remember, not a brewere - became their sole supplier. That model literally ruined many, many lives and the court cases are still going on today.

At the same time, the CAMRA wankers were crowing about 'smashing the Big Six' and 'freeing 14,000 pubs from a beer tie' which was true in a literal sense but failed to note that those 14,000 pubs were now in the hands of property companies whic would be far, far worse as landlords than any brewer ever was.

This is the major reason why I despise CAMRA. There are others as well...

Fast forward a few years and the Beer Orders themselves were quietly repealed and acknowledged as 'a mistake'. This neatly opens the door for monopolies to exist without political interference. Genius.

Our volume brewing is now controlled by Heineken, Coors, ABInbev and Carlsberg. Carlsberg have just mopped up Marston's.

My blood boils still thinking about it. We had a brewer like Bass who produced great beers, had a pub estate of around 6000 which was largely debt free, and had been going about its business for a couple of hundred years just wiped out by clueless politicians and a trade union masquerading as a consumer group inside a decade.

There's a couple of books that touch on the subject, I can definitely reccomend this work of minor genius:

GBP Cover.jpg
 
Warm flat beer is a double joke for the British: Everyone else laughs because they can't build refrigerators or make casks that don't leak all the CO2 out. But the British know, when the pub and brewer get it right, it is sublime. And, like milk, it can't (easily) be exported, although Boddington's does a half-decent job with their special cans.

Despite being Roman subjects once, who almost exclusively drank wine, one can argue that real beermaking originated in Britain.

...and Belgium. I think I admire the Belgian beer culture above all others.
 
That's called 'vertical integration' and was very normal for us up until the 1980s. In the 1980s we had a notorious piece of legislation commonly called The Beer Orders.

At the time we had six major brewers with pub estates and a national presence - plus dozens of smaller regional brewers - and for some stilll unfathomable reason this was perceived as a monopoly. In a move that looked bonkers at the time, and looks even more bonkers with the benefit of hindsight, the government of the day mandated that any brewer with a pub estate over 2000 sites must sell 50% of the pubs over and above that 2000.

There was no legislation around brewing though so there were all sorts of weird pub-for-brewery swaps, massive sales of packages going to brewery directors with the brewers lending them the money and then imposing a beer tie in return, massive packages going to property companies and an exercise in asset stripping like we've never seen before or since.

Of course, the business brains ran rings round the political brains and a lot of people made a lot of money. The upshot for us as a consuming public was that much of the tied house system disappeared and many of our older and much-revered brewers got gobbled up because the knobs in power didn't have the foresight to see it coming.

The pubs that went to property companies - Primarily Punch Taverns and Enterprise Inns - were operated on ruthless full repairing leases and dropped into a total monopoly situation where their landlord - a property company remember, not a brewere - became their sole supplier. That model literally ruined many, many lives and the court cases are still going on today.

At the same time, the CAMRA wankers were crowing about 'smashing the Big Six' and 'freeing 14,000 pubs from a beer tie' which was true in a literal sense but failed to note that those 14,000 pubs were now in the hands of property companies whic would be far, far worse as landlords than any brewer ever was.

This is the major reason why I despise CAMRA. There are others as well...

Fast forward a few years and the Beer Orders themselves were quietly repealed and acknowledged as 'a mistake'. This neatly opens the door for monopolies to exist without political interference. Genius.

Our volume brewing is now controlled by Heineken, Coors, ABInbev and Carlsberg. Carlsberg have just mopped up Marston's.

My blood boils still thinking about it. We had a brewer like Bass who produced great beers, had a pub estate of around 6000 which was largely debt free, and had been going about its business for a couple of hundred years just wiped out by clueless politicians and a trade union masquerading as a consumer group inside a decade.

There's a couple of books that touch on the subject, I can definitely reccomend this work of minor genius:

View attachment 21125
Thanks for all of that, very interesting.
I'm assuming that's your book, published by SPF Media?? I will definitely give it a read.
 
Thanks for all of that, very interesting.
I'm assuming that's your book, published by SPF Media?? I will definitely give it a read.

Yes. Sorry about the long rant, I still get all upset about cultural vandalism :)
 
What I find particularly fascinating about UK (or just England??) beer history is the custom of the Tied Beer House/Estate, essentially the practice of the brewer owning the bar, something that (as far as I know) hasn't been legal in the States since before Prohibition. Is this practice still going strong or has it run its course? I can imagine that a Tied House had many advantages and disadvantages.

Yes it still goes on. Some big breweries still maintain pubs where the landlords are TOLD what beers to put up and what prices to charge. They are not allowed to serve any other beers and spirits not furnished by their lords and masters. In return the landlords get a free home - over the shop usually - for as long as the contract lasts - then they are out on their ear (or beer!) ad need to find other accommodation / job. It is a tough life.
My earliest memories was as a 4 yr old living in the Stane Hotel near a Scottish town of Shotts. My dad ran the bar and my mum looked after the guests in the hotel section. The Stane Hotel was tied (as far as I am aware of) and my dad had little choice but to take the beers etc. I remember going down to the bar when it was empty and helping myself to Heavy - I didn't know what it was but I liked it that and the small bottles of Schewepps Pineapple juice. Apparently I went into the cellar one day and turned on the taps on the giant barrels of beer. My dad had to make good the loss of many pints of beer.... I was only 4! I also remember the ambulance turning up and taking me to hospital to get my appendix removed... it's as clear as day though 64 years ago. I can still remember the smell of freshly cooked turkey at christmas time being trollied down the hall to the dining room for the hotel guest's Christmas dinner. I stole a bit before being caught.

I can also remember the Juke Box that was kept in the back lounge down stairs. It cost sixpence to play a record and the one I enjoyed (apparently) was I Love A Lassie by Harry Lauder... I used to sing along to it and annoyed the patrons in the pub.


Advantages of a Tied house - secure housing - for as long as it lasts
Disadvantages: Insecure housing - if you fall foul of the management. Not being able to bring in the beer the clients may actually like....
 
I'm just stepping a couple time zones back:
Has anyone else noticed that it's a bit lonely in my time zone? We had a whole bunch of South Africans joining recently, but it seens they have gone since they can buy beer and other alcohol again:oops::oops:

Anyway, we are going to move through a couple time zones simultenously, as there is a lot of water in GMT -1, and GMT -2. So we'll include GMT -3 as well.
Hopefully we got someone in Greenland, Argentinia or Brazil ;)
 

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