Short boil IBUs

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Steve Ruch

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A five gallon batch at 1.050 boiled for 30 minutes instead of 60 only needs 3/10 oz more hops to achieve the same IBUs (TINSETH).
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That is on a calculator though. I have heard of people doing short boil or even no boil, but not sure I trust it.
Hops takes time to isomerize. If you don't want the bittering, it should work
 
Minbari said:
That is on a calculator though. I have heard of people doing short boil or even no boil, but not sure I trust it.
Hops takes time to isomerize. If you don't want the bittering, it should work
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I often do 30 minute or 15 minute boils. The beers come out plenty bitter

A 60 minute boil allows almost 100% of the alpha acids to isomerize. Isomerization still happens over a 15 minute period, just not as many acids change shape, so the hop volume must increase to compensate.

This is why whirlpool/hop stand additions still contribute bitterness, and beers that are "hop bursted" are plenty bitter
 
Minbari said:
That is on a calculator though. I have heard of people doing short boil or even no boil, but not sure I trust it.
Hops takes time to isomerize. If you don't want the bittering, it should work
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Hop isomerization starts below boiling temperature. You might not get as much as with boiling but you will get some.
 
Sunfire96 said:
I often do 30 minute or 15 minute boils. The beers come out plenty bitter

A 60 minute boil allows almost 100% of the alpha acids to isomerize. Isomerization still happens over a 15 minute period, just not as many acids change shape, so the hop volume must increase to compensate.

This is why whirlpool/hop stand additions still contribute bitterness, and beers that are "hop bursted" are plenty bitter
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Sunfire pretty much nailed the answer, the only thing I can add is that isomerizing is not linear, meaning that when hops are boiled, the bittering contribution is a lot at first and then as the hops are boiled longer isomerization tappers off, so a boil of 15 minutes compared to 60 minutes doesn't give you 4 times the bittering. There good reasons to boil for 60 minutes, like you only want bittering and not flavor or aroma. At 15 minutes you would get bittering, flavor and aroma because the hop volatiles haven't been boiled of yet.

Bittering is not the science we want it to be and is not as definable as want it to be. There is still a lot to learn about it, but the palate is the final judge of bitterness.
 
For those interested in reading about IBUs from hop stands and short boils.

There is a Basic Brewing Radio (BBR) episode (Nov 1 18, "IBUs vs Wort Gravity and Hop Stand Temp") that may be of interest.

The BBR "Hop Sampler" process is one way to experiment with this idea. They did have one of the beers measured for IBUs. Brulosophy also did this in one of there exbeeriments.

alchemyoverlord.wordpress.com also has some articles on the subject.
 
Interesting subject as I just discovered Tannenzäpfle by Rothaus and have fallen in love... which naturally means I must learn how to create something similar. My biggest hurdles are yeast strain and the fact that their website says that they use Hallertau and Tettnanger hops but do not do any bittering additions. For the unfamiliar, the beer is a pilsner but it taste more like a very light Marzen / Oktoberfest rather than a crispy and sharp pilsner. Somewhere on the interwebs I came across a thread about the beer with a comment from a person that for some reason gave me the impression of credibility. They said the beer was around 33 IBUs. I would imagine that the quantity of flavor / aroma additions required to achieve this would have a drastic impact on the flavor of the beer... which I do not perceive. It's just a nice crispy and clean thing with a touch of that german malt yeast sweetness you get from certain something like a Paulaner Oktoberfest. Then again, I've never felt like I've gotten much out of whirlpool and hopstand additions when compared to dry hopping. :confused:
 
Dornbox said:
Interesting subject as I just discovered Tannenzäpfle by Rothaus and have fallen in love... which naturally means I must learn how to create something similar. My biggest hurdles are yeast strain and the fact that their website says that they use Hallertau and Tettnanger hops but do not do any bittering additions. For the unfamiliar, the beer is a pilsner but it taste more like a very light Marzen / Oktoberfest rather than a crispy and sharp pilsner. Somewhere on the interwebs I came across a thread about the beer with a comment from a person that for some reason gave me the impression of credibility. They said the beer was around 33 IBUs. I would imagine that the quantity of flavor / aroma additions required to achieve this would have a drastic impact on the flavor of the beer... which I do not perceive. It's just a nice crispy and clean thing with a touch of that german malt yeast sweetness you get from certain something like a Paulaner Oktoberfest. Then again, I've never felt like I've gotten much out of whirlpool and hopstand additions when compared to dry hopping. :confused:
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Which hallertau? Magnum can have 12% AA and mittlefruh can have 3.5% AA.
 
Good point! I always assume mittlefruh for some reason. I did just go to the German website though and it simply calls out Hallertau. The German website did list the IBUs at 31 though. Given that, the magnum variety might make sense. I’ll have to play with the recipe builder and see what it takes to get 31 IBUs from 30 minute and Whirlpool additions. Thanks for the insight!
 
Dornbox said:
Good point! I always assume mittlefruh for some reason. I did just go to the German website though and it simply calls out Hallertau. The German website did list the IBUs at 31 though. Given that, the magnum variety might make sense. I’ll have to play with the recipe builder and see what it takes to get 31 IBUs from 30 minute and Whirlpool additions. Thanks for the insight!
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Not sure about whirlpool, but 30 minutes of magnum and 10 minutes of tettnanger will get you close.
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Hallertau, Magnum and Tettnanger are nirmally listed as seperate hops as far as I can see on the European websites.
So I don't think they meant any of those.
I would think more of H. Tradition, or mittelfruh, blanc, gold or hersbrucker...
 
Zambezi Special said:
Hallertau, Magnum and Tettnanger are nirmally listed as seperate hops as far as I can see on the European websites.
So I don't think they meant any of those.
I would think more of H. Tradition, or mittelfruh, blanc, gold or hersbrucker...
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According to hopslist, a European website.
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magnum is also known as hallertau magnum.
 
Zambezi Special said:
Hallertau, Magnum and Tettnanger are nirmally listed as seperate hops as far as I can see on the European websites.
So I don't think they meant any of those.
I would think more of H. Tradition, or mittelfruh, blanc, gold or hersbrucker...
Click to expand...
Hallertau is the region where they are grown, so there are many Hallertau hops such as H. Magnum, H. Tradition, H. Blanc, and H. Mittelfruh. When brewers say Hallertau they are usually referring to H. Mittelfruh, but any of these hops are technically Hallertau hops
 
Sunfire96 said:
Hallertau is the region where they are grown, so there are many Hallertau hops such as H. Magnum, H. Tradition, H. Blanc, and H. Mittelfruh. When brewers say Hallertau they are usually referring to H. Mittelfruh, but any of these hops are technically Hallertau hops
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I agree, I just meant to say that if a recipe mentions "hallertau" as hop, I find it unlikely to be "magnum".
My post was just in response to @Dornbox query about tannenzäpfle beer ;)
And I am now going to google that beer!
 
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