Don't understand water chemistry calc

Hetken1

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Hi, Got my report from WARD and tried to understand the process. ie;
My chemistry compared to Dublin (dry stout) gives differences BUT how to get the salt additions to alter my water. Does the calc compare and advise the weights of corrections?
Ken
 
Nope. You enter salts and the calculator shows you their effect on mash chemistry. Note this is not the effect on flavor!
 
Nope. You enter salts and the calculator shows you their effect on mash chemistry. Note this is not the effect on flavor!
Hi Not looking for effect on flavor. Looking for the math to compare my water to another geo area, ie Dublin, and weights af additions
 
Hi Not looking for effect on flavor. Looking for the math to compare my water to another geo area, ie Dublin, and weights af additions
It works by trial and error, the calculator won't convert the ppm delta into grams of salt.
 
It works by trial and error, the calculator won't convert the ppm delta into grams of salt.
Yep - Trial and error! You start entering with 2-5gm amount and see what happens. I basically have to use three salts. Gysum , Epsom (Magnesium Sulphate) and Calcium Chloride.
 
Yep - Trial and error! You start entering with 2-5gm amount and see what happens. I basically have to use three salts. Gysum , Epsom (Magnesium Sulphate) and Calcium Chloride.
Add mag chloride, table salt and baking soda and you can do just about anything brewing requires.
 
Add mag chloride, table salt and baking soda and you can do just about anything brewing requires.

I go a different direction, as I love making IPAs and APAs, and I use gypsum, calcium chloride and phosphoric acid and nothing much else except for the very rare occasion.

I guess it depends what people like to make- I almost never add magnesium unless my calcium is to high and I want more sulfate.
 
Yep - Trial and error! You start entering with 2-5gm amount and see what happens. I basically have to use three salts. Gysum , Epsom (Magnesium Sulphate) and Calcium Chloride.
 
So why is it called a calculator when it doesn't actually calculate anything? It simply shows you if your guess is right till you get it right.
Is there a reason it won't actually calculate? Other software does so (i.e.Beersmith, Brewfather)
 
So why is it called a calculator when it doesn't actually calculate anything? It simply shows you if your guess is right till you get it right.
Is there a reason it won't actually calculate? Other software does so (i.e.Beersmith, Brewfather)
I have never used Beersmith, but yes Brewfather does have a nice option there.
Not sure why Brewers Friend doesn't have this functionality, one of the reasons I use Brewfather for recipes.
 
Do it by hand and get back to me.
Since for the most part you have been very helpful, I will assume that that reply is not meant to be as nasty as it seems.
I am asking why something called a calculator doesn't actually calculate, and think this is a valid question. As most people who are using software rather then speadsheets etc don't want to do it by hand. Is there something I am missing ?
 
Since for the most part you have been very helpful, I will assume that that reply is not meant to be as nasty as it seems.
I am asking why something called a calculator doesn't actually calculate, and think this is a valid question. As most people who are using software rather then speadsheets etc don't want to do it by hand. Is there something I am missing ?

But it does. It calculates what the additions do to the water. I think @Nosybear was just pointing out how much easier it is to use the "calculator" than trying to do the math.

If you think that was nasty, I hate to see what you'd think if I recommended that you do some reading on the subject.
 
But it does. It calculates what the additions do to the water. I think @Nosybear was just pointing out how much easier it is to use the "calculator" than trying to do the math.

If you think that was nasty, I hate to see what you'd think if I recommended that you do some reading on the subject.
I have done reading on it and am comparing other software that does the calulations for you. The one here does not as far as i can tell, I enter my starting water profile and my target and gt nothing. I make the adjustment myself and it simply shows me if i'm in the ball park.
where as brewfather fills in the recommended additions for you. same as beersmith. and i seen it on some older defunct software I can't recall the name of. So i am asking why that isn't done here, thinking maybe i am missing something on the page i have been over several times ?
As for Nosebear's response that wasn't what i took from that short answer since i thought i was asking a direct question. and obviously doing it by hand sucks which is why most folks are attempting to use software.

At this point I think you are both misunderstanding the question. I want to know what the software does not function as the name suggest. Not how to do water calculations. This is the calculator support forum and from my prospective I am pointing out and questioning a flaw.
 
the water calculator here is not meant to give you an exact answer, what it does do is make any brewer with many different ways of brewing build a customized water profile to your own style and taste, anyone can get you in the ball park but you'll find that 10 different brewers brew 10 different ways so how can you please them all with one an answer
 
I'll give you a paraphrased example, I have a grandson that's completing math questions, he says can you give me the answer, I say sure I'll tell you the answer if you tell me how I got it? do you really want a blind answer to salts or do you want to find out for your self what beer tastes like in any situation
 
@Yooper and I have had many discussions about this, and the short answer is we have not seen an effective automated or self determining feature that determines water adjustments or salts for you. Many of them result in really bad results like adding salts or minerals to raise the pH, then adding acid to lower the pH, then adding more salt to raise a component of the water in order to hit some regional "profile".

The fact of that matter is that most, if not all, of those easy to use systems are simply too simple and don't allow for the flexibility that a calculator like we have, or some others like Bru'n water for example, which allow the user to determine which additions they're using, and how much.

We calculate the output, you put in the input.

It's a possibility that we may at some point meet half way and calculate some of the additions, but there will need to be a lengthy discussion and testing process with the community, Yooper, and I.
 
the water calculator here is not meant to give you an exact answer, what it does do is make any brewer with many different ways of brewing build a customized water profile to your own style and taste, anyone can get you in the ball park but you'll find that 10 different brewers brew 10 different ways so how can you please them all with one an answer
@Yooper and I have had many discussions about this, and the short answer is we have not seen an effective automated or self determining feature that determines water adjustments or salts for you. Many of them result in really bad results like adding salts or minerals to raise the pH, then adding acid to lower the pH, then adding more salt to raise a component of the water in order to hit some regional "profile".

The fact of that matter is that most, if not all, of those easy to use systems are simply too simple and don't allow for the flexibility that a calculator like we have, or some others like Bru'n water for example, which allow the user to determine which additions they're using, and how much.

We calculate the output, you put in the input.

It's a possibility that we may at some point meet half way and calculate some of the additions, but there will need to be a lengthy discussion and testing process with the community, Yooper, and I.

Thank you both, That answers my question. But bring another question. Is it possible to put something close to Ozarks' explanation on the Water Calc page. It would be extremely helpful for Us newer folks. Since i used beersmith prior to this, didn't understand why no salt additions were suggested after entering the start and target.
 
Since for the most part you have been very helpful, I will assume that that reply is not meant to be as nasty as it seems.
I am asking why something called a calculator doesn't actually calculate, and think this is a valid question. As most people who are using software rather then speadsheets etc don't want to do it by hand. Is there something I am missing ?
Think of the water calculator the same as the recipe editor. The recipe editor will not auto fill your grain bill, or hops schedule. It requires user input. There are many ways to reach a desired water profile it is up to the user to provide input. I struggled with it at first, but it forced me to learn more about the additions and their effects. In brewfather there is a magic wand, but it still requires some user input.
 

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