Getting back to home brewing and playing around with recipes

[DJL531]

I home brewed back in what feels like the dark ages in the mid 1990s. I never had a lot of success, but as I got older and more patient, I gave it another try. So here I am about 10 months into brewing again and I'm on beer number 12 in the fermenter. I started with extract kits, mostly idiot proof. Then moved into all grain kits, more challenging, but I got better. And now I'm playing with making my own recipe. First one came out really well (different that below) and now I'm looking for a base all grain beer to test single hops. Not exactly a SMASH, but close. What do you think of this?

3 gallon Pale Ale

5# 2-row
1# Crystal Malt 40
1# Carapils
150 deg mash 60 min
60 min boil

This calculates to 1.063 and using Voss Kveik I get about 6.5 abv.

First plan to use Motueka 6.2AA, with
.5 oz at 60
.5 oz at 15
1 oz dry hop at day 4 for 7 days.
30 IBU

The reason I'm doing this is I have a subscription to Yakima Hops 'Hop Box'. Every 3 months I get 8 different hops, 2 oz each. Some support single hop recipes, and some mix well. I was using DME for my test beers and adding some steeping grains, but I want to go all grain.

Comments, suggestions?

Hops I have to play with:
Wakatu
Azacca
Mosaic
Enigma
Motueka
Galaxy
Citra
Vic Secret
Ella
HPA 016 (new from Austrailia)
Rakau
Pacific Jade

See the dilemma I have? LOL!

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

3 gallon Pale Ale

5# 2-row
1# Crystal Malt 40
1# Carapils
150 deg mash 60 min
60 min boil

The mash and boil all look good, but the amount of crystal malt and carapils is a lot. It's about 28% of crystal malt if you consider Carapils a crystal malt (I do). Back off on the crystal 40 to about 4-6 ounces and drop the Carapils all together, you really don't need it, it's for head retention. To get the gravity back up, increase your base malt.

If you use that much crystal the beer can get heavy and sweet, general rule is @ 5%. If you want more color and malt flavor you can use some light Munich malt, up to 15% or more. It will increase the malt character and color without the heavy sweetness.

As far as the hops, blend the hops with similar profiles and don't be afraid to use more. Just use the calculator to keep the IBU's in check, 40-50. To get the most hops into the beer, lean toward whirlpool and dry hop additions. At @170F whirlpool, the hop utilization is about 3%. The calculator on Brewer's Friend can be adjusted. I rarely have any boil additions in my pale ales, only whirlpool and dry hopping.

Good luck!

 

[Craigerrr]

Dilemma?
I don't see a dilemma!
Some pretty awesome hops there! In 40+ brews I have yet to do a single hop (except for the first batch which was an extract kit). I really doubt I ever will, I have found that blending different hops can create a pretty amazing beer.
Not to discourage you in any way, more to say that I can't offer any advice based on experience. If you find that you just have too many hops, feel free to send them my way!

 

[Megary]

Agree completely with @HighVoltageMan! ...that's way too much crystal. If you added that much for color purposes, then you would be better served by using a lot less of a darker crystal. (I like to keep C120 around because I usually only need a few ounces to move the SRM needle) Also, if you really think you need something to aid in head retention, substitute .25-.50 lb of pale wheat malt for the same in base malt.

Good luck!

**EDIT**
By the way, I love Motueka and think it would be a great choice for an APA.

 

[Nosybear]

I'd cut the crystal at least in half, the carapils by a fourth (4 ounces). As I recently learned from a Muttbrau, you can't cut cloying with bitterness.

 

[Over The Cliff Brewing]

Motueka, Galaxy and Vic Secret

 

[DJL531]

The mash and boil all look good, but the amount of crystal malt and carapils is a lot. It's about 28% of crystal malt if you consider Carapils a crystal malt (I do). Back off on the crystal 40 to about 4-6 ounces and drop the Carapils all together, you really don't need it, it's for head retention. To get the gravity back up, increase your base malt.

If you use that much crystal the beer can get heavy and sweet, general rule is @ 5%. If you want more color and malt flavor you can use some light Munich malt, up to 15% or more. It will increase the malt character and color without the heavy sweetness.

As far as the hops, blend the hops with similar profiles and don't be afraid to use more. Just use the calculator to keep the IBU's in check, 40-50. To get the most hops into the beer, lean toward whirlpool and dry hop additions. At @170F whirlpool, the hop utilization is about 3%. The calculator on Brewer's Friend can be adjusted. I rarely have any boil additions in my pale ales, only whirlpool and dry hopping.

Good luck!

Thanks for that advice. I'll bump the crystal and carapils down and add more 2-row. I recently started reading about all late hop editions. I was afraid without that bittering at 60 min I would get something too sweet. I am looking for a heavier malt taste, which I prefer.

 

[Craigerrr]

All late hop editions are more of a NEIPA, Hazy thing. If you are going to have a significant malt presence in a West Coast style IPA, you might want some bitterness to go with it. For instance, with a hazy you would never use a Crystal malt ever, the style is all about the hops. With a West Coast IPA with some Crystal malt, you would want some bitterness, say 50 or 60 (or 70-80 if you were me) to balance it out.
Those are just my thoughts, I am sure others have other thoughts

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

All late hop editions are more of a NEIPA, Hazy thing. If you are going to have a significant malt presence in a West Coast style IPA, you might want some bitterness to go with it. For instance, with a hazy you would never use a Crystal malt ever, the style is all about the hops. With a West Coast IPA with some Crystal malt, you would want some bitterness, say 50 or 60 (or 70-80 if you were me) to balance it out.
Those are just my thoughts, I am sure others have other thoughts

I hate to disagree, but this technique, late additions, are older than NEIPA. Pale ales above 50 IBU’s are harsh, it’s about balance between malt, hop flavor and bitterness.

There is a lot of over lap between styles, this is one of them.

 

[Craigerrr]

I hate to disagree, but this technique, late additions, are older than NEIPA. Pale ales above 50 IBU’s are harsh, it’s about balance between malt, hop flavor and bitterness.

There is a lot of over lap between styles, this is one of them.

Fair enough on late additions, I didn't mean that WC IPA's don't get late additions. Was meaning more that a beer that gets no boil additions is not typical of a WC, and more the norm for NEIPA. Am I off the mark on any of my other points?

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Fair enough on late additions, I didn't mean that WC IPA's don't get late additions. Was meaning more that a beer that gets no boil additions is not typical of a WC, and more the norm for NEIPA. Am I off the mark on any of my other points?

It's true that NEIPA's use whirlpool almost exclusively, but before that was a thing I had been using 170 F whirlpools to make pale ale's and IPA's with more flavor and aroma. "West Coast" has evolved over the years to include fruity hops, but not to the extent of NEIPA's. The bitterness is toned down on some newer versions. The biggest difference, to me anyway, is a drier, crisper finish, it's a beer that can be guzzled on a hot day. The whirlpool still brings out the bitterness, but the hop flavor and aroma are brought up by using way more hops. The whirlpool allows me to add a lot more hops without it getting stupid bitter.

Some guys still do a small 10-15 minute boil addition, but I pretty much get all my bitterness from the whirlpool. When it's entered in a competition, the judges sometimes comment the bitterness is a little high, but most time they say it's within style. I can't recall any that said the bitterness was too low. They have no idea that there were no hops in the boil.

All this talk about NEIPA's, I should try brewing one. Big, juicy and in your face aroma, you got me thinking about it.

 

[Daniel Parshley]

Dilemma?
In 40+ brews I have yet to do a single hop (except for the first batch which was an extract kit). I really doubt I ever will, I have found that blending different hops can create a pretty amazing beer.

Like you, I usually have a selection of hops but have done several one hop type batches I liked (Mosaic, Cascade, Simcoe) to get a firm idea about the hop. I'm brewing batch 36 and usually do 2 or 3 a month so I guess I'm right behind you in the learning curve.

 

[Craigerrr]

It's true that NEIPA's use whirlpool almost exclusively, but before that was a thing I had been using 170 F whirlpools to make pale ale's and IPA's with more flavor and aroma. "West Coast" has evolved over the years to include fruity hops, but not to the extent of NEIPA's. The bitterness is toned down on some newer versions. The biggest difference, to me anyway, is a drier, crisper finish, it's a beer that can be guzzled on a hot day. The whirlpool still brings out the bitterness, but the hop flavor and aroma are brought up by using way more hops. The whirlpool allows me to add a lot more hops without it getting stupid bitter.

Some guys still do a small 10-15 minute boil addition, but I pretty much get all my bitterness from the whirlpool. When it's entered in a competition, the judges sometimes comment the bitterness is a little high, but most time they say it's within style. I can't recall any that said the bitterness was too low. They have no idea that there were no hops in the boil.

All this talk about NEIPA's, I should try brewing one. Big, juicy and in your face aroma, you got me thinking about it.

Interesting, I will have to try a west coast with no boil additions. Would you typically go heavy with dry hop additions too?

Like you, I usually have a selection of hops but have done several one hop type batches I liked (Mosaic, Cascade, Simcoe) to get a firm idea about the hop. I'm brewing batch 36 and usually do 2 or 3 a month so I guess I'm right behind you in the learning curve.

Oh, I have plenty to learn! Maybe I need to do a single hop west coast with no boil hops! One advantage is knocking a half hour off the brew day, I normally do a 30 minute boil on my New Englands.

 

[Daniel Parshley]

Interesting, I will have to try a west coast with no boil additions. Would you typically go heavy with dry hop additions too?


Oh, I have plenty to learn! Maybe I need to do a single hop west coast with no boil hops! One advantage is knocking a half hour off the brew day, I normally do a 30 minute boil on my New Englands.

I had a no boil hops brew at a micro brewery and it was not bad. Delicate flavors and not much in the way of bittering, but not bad. I have made a batch light on the boil hops but not just after the boil yet. I love reading the forums and getting information and ideas.

 

[Hawkbox]

I agree about the crystal, but otherwise just do something that sparks your interest and run with it. Don't go overboard with any one ingredient to start with and you'll find a method that suits you.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Interesting, I will have to try a west coast with no boil additions. Would you typically go heavy with dry hop additions too?

The dry hop schedule is not as aggressive as NEIPA, I only count the bitterness from whirlpool and add as many hops as I can without overshooting my target IBU's. Dry hop additions are about .75 to 1 ounce per gallon.